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Old 10-06-2021, 07:42 AM
 
Location: Charleston, SC
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Attention all grammarians.....I'm not sure of the rule on this one. When you have a compound subject in a sentence, should the verb be singular or plural ?

The singular verb sounds 'more better' in this usage.

To wit --

"Cinnamon and Sugar mixed together is considered an aphrodisiac."
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Old 10-06-2021, 10:06 AM
 
Location: Dessert
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If you ignore the clause "mixed together," the subject is plural. I think it needs "are."

Just say, "A mixture of cinnamon and sugar is..." and you're home free.
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Old 10-06-2021, 11:31 AM
 
Location: Texas Hill Country
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Cinnamon and Sugar are the subject. They are plural, and "is" does not sound "more better" at all.

If you absolutely insist on using "is," then revise the sentence as steiconi suggested.
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Old 10-06-2021, 11:41 AM
 
86 posts, read 65,761 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FiveLoaves View Post
Attention all grammarians.....I'm not sure of the rule on this one. When you have a compound subject in a sentence, should the verb be singular or plural ?

The singular verb sounds 'more better' in this usage.

To wit --

"Cinnamon and Sugar mixed together is considered an aphrodisiac."
It depends on whether the individual things that comprise the subject remain discrete entities or have formed a new singular whole.

For example, "Biscuits and gravy is delicious."

If one is talking about the dish called biscuits and gravy, the singular verb accompanies the singular compound subject. A more obvious example would be one where the individual parts cannot be easily parsed out. I can't think of a food dish like that at the moment, but 'rock and roll' would be one such subject.

The question is then one of whether or not 'cinnamon and sugar mixed together' is one thing or are two things. It is clear that as a subject, they have combined to form a single entity. Thus, the singular verb is correct.

Last edited by Kermorvan; 10-06-2021 at 12:00 PM..
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Old 10-06-2021, 11:55 AM
 
23,591 posts, read 70,367,145 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FiveLoaves View Post
Attention all grammarians.....I'm not sure of the rule on this one. When you have a compound subject in a sentence, should the verb be singular or plural ?

The singular verb sounds 'more better' in this usage.

To wit --

"Cinnamon and Sugar mixed together is considered an aphrodisiac."
This is a question of equivalency. Invert the sentence:

"An aphrodisiac is considered (to be) cinnamon and sugar mixed together."

Is cinnamon alone an aphrodisiac? No.

Is sugar alone an aphrodisiac? No.

In order for the equivalency to work, only the mixture can be the subject.

Two molecules of hydrogen and one molecule of oxygen are not water because they are not yet combined.

H2O is water.
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Old 10-06-2021, 12:09 PM
 
Location: Charleston, SC
2,525 posts, read 1,945,168 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steiconi View Post
If you ignore the clause "mixed together," the subject is plural. I think it needs "are."

Just say, "A mixture of cinnamon and sugar is..." and you're home free.

Thanks.....that's a better sentence construct and removes any possible confusion.
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Old 10-06-2021, 09:03 PM
 
Location: Southwest Washington State
30,585 posts, read 25,140,668 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arkay66 View Post
Cinnamon and Sugar are the subject. They are plural, and "is" does not sound "more better" at all.

If you absolutely insist on using "is," then revise the sentence as steiconi suggested.
This
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Old 10-06-2021, 09:16 PM
 
Location: Dessert
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There might be regional differences at play here. Biscuits and gravy ARE separate things where I come from, and they aren't often eaten together.

Bangers and mash might qualify for "is," but mostly because they're exotic and unfamiliar, and I've always seen them linked together. If I were familiar with them as separate entities, I'd definitely use "are."

Well, I am familiar with "mash," but call it mashed potatoes, so it seems different.
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Old 10-07-2021, 05:59 AM
 
86 posts, read 65,761 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steiconi View Post
There might be regional differences at play here. Biscuits and gravy ARE separate things where I come from, and they aren't often eaten together.

Bangers and mash might qualify for "is," but mostly because they're exotic and unfamiliar, and I've always seen them linked together. If I were familiar with them as separate entities, I'd definitely use "are."

Well, I am familiar with "mash," but call it mashed potatoes, so it seems different.
Biscuits are gravy are separate things everywhere, even where biscuits and gravy is a dish. But the phrase biscuits and gravy is like bread and butter (people understand it to be a piece of bread spread with butter, not a loaf of bread and a stick of butter) or Scotch and soda (people understand it to be a drink of the two mixed together, not a bottle of Scotch and a bottle of soda).

Obviously, context matters, but words with homophones and multiple definitions abound and we understand the intent with ease the vast majority of the time. If someone suggests biscuits and gravy for breakfast, it is a safe bet that they're suggesting the dish, which is singular and thus calls for a singular accompanying verb. If someone asks you to pick up biscuits and gravy from the grocery store, those would be two separate items and the verb would be plural when referring to them.
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Old 10-07-2021, 08:55 AM
 
Location: Dessert
10,890 posts, read 7,373,369 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kermorvan View Post
But the phrase biscuits and gravy is like bread and butter
That's must be true where you grew up, but I never heard of "biscuits and gravy" as a dish until I was in my 30s. (I tried it then, the gravy was bland and awful. I later had a very good version in the midwest.)

So I would agree that there are paired foods (like fish and chips) that might be considered a dish in some areas, and some people might use the singular verb.
Bread and butter is a great example!
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