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I would wish that a twenty year old would have the common sense to stay in school, use birth control, and be careful when it comes to sex. I would wish that she had bigger dreams at twenty than "being a mom".
I would wish that this hypothetical very young woman would want to learn, travel, get a degree, have several jobs, date many different people, have a lot of fun - lots of laughs and late nights out, read some great books, travel more and mature to the point that she can plan a child and a family.
I would wish her a rich and beautiful life. That's what I would want and wish, if this hypothetical young woman were my daughter.
What's wrong with dreaming of being a mom at 20? Why is that not "big" enough? I think it's very unfair to claim that someone who chooses to have kids instead of going to school lack common sense. My grandmother, like most women in the 50's, married and had kids in her 20's then went back to school in her 30's and had a long good career and traveled around the world. What's wrong with that?
Whatever you think the ideal life for a 20-year old should be reality is that many 20-year olds have babies and if the law you want would be instituted those babies would be taken from those mothers by force. Is that would you think should happen, really? I got married when I was 20 and had two miscarriages in the next six months. But had that not happened you would have wanted to have someone come into the hospital and snatch my baby out of my arms. Is that really what you want? I guess so since I lack common sense.
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I am really not trying to argue with anyone. I was raised very differently and the thought of having a baby at 20 never entered my mind.
I do not see many child abuse cases, murders, children being removed from their families, etc among for example, a couple who is 29 and 32 with a bachelor's degree and a masters degree who are home owners and have done some traveling, had some fun, and are settled and financially secure.
So, when I see a nineteen year old and a two year old together, I usually wish that they were siblings, rather than parent and child. From my perspective, both are kids.
I am really not trying to argue with anyone. I was raised very differently and the thought of having a baby at 20 never entered my mind.
It didn't mine either. But that doesn't mean there is anything wrong with a woman who feels differently than you or I did. There are also women who did not intend to get pregnant at 20. I will head you off at the pass and do a PSA that birth control even when used properly is not 100% effective. And people do sometimes make errors in judgement. None of us are perfect.
Furthermore, you stated that you feel a law should be made to forcibly remove children from adults under the age of 21. I cannot imagine that you didn't think quite a few people would have an issue with such an outlandish proposition.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheena12
I do not see many child abuse cases, murders, children being removed from their families, etc among for example, a couple who is 29 and 32 with a bachelor's degree and a masters degree who are home owners and have done some traveling, had some fun, and are settled and financially secure.
Statistics besides the latest sensational news story the media latches onto as the flavor of the moment? What you see in the news cannot be taken as an accurate measurement of the facts.
Child abuse can and does occur in rich families, educated families, and families who travel.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheena12
So, when I see a nineteen year old and a two year old together, I usually wish that they were siblings, rather than parent and child. From my perspective, both are kids.
A 19 year old is an adult. They may vote, go to war for their country, and be prosecuted for a crime as an adult. Your personal perspective does not change the fact that a 19 year old is, in fact, an adult, not a kid. Again, a mother who does not wish to relinquish her child should not, regardless of her age, marital status, or checklist of dreams fulfilled like traveling and a Master's degree. I heartily disagree with you that we should pass a law to the contrary.
It's this judgmental attitude that bothers me because it leads to a form of social and family coercion for young mothers. When a young mother has people telling her that she's too young, that she has her whole life ahead of her, that she needs to finish college before having kids... all this causes a pressure to give up her child. She also needs to be presented with the facts that she might someday regret her choice, that she can go to college and keep her child (it may be hard, but it is possible), and that she is in fact not signing her life's death warrant by being a young mother just because she won't go on dates with lots of different guys, travel to foreign countries, or stay out late having fun with friends. Only then, when she is presented with both sides and no judgement, can she make an informed choice.
I am really not trying to argue with anyone. I was raised very differently and the thought of having a baby at 20 never entered my mind.
I do not see many child abuse cases, murders, children being removed from their families, etc among for example, a couple who is 29 and 32 with a bachelor's degree and a masters degree who are home owners and have done some traveling, had some fun, and are settled and financially secure.
So, when I see a nineteen year old and a two year old together, I usually wish that they were siblings, rather than parent and child. From my perspective, both are kids.
Sheena,
Your best case scenario comes with a specific flaw in reality...
Waiting too long to have children has adverse consequences - until evolution catches up with your best case scenario, and humans do not enter puberty until their late teens / early twenties - all eggs still have a shelf life, and even if the mother does get pregnant the risk of chomosomal abnormalities for the child excellerate. Over time the species would become extinct. Until evolution makes a different reality, the best time to procreate is the time you wish people were in school, travelling, having a career.
I am sure you are not suggesting that the have's just take the have not's babies.
Sheena12: You don't have to try to argue with the ones that are attacking you, it will just happen. I wanted to let you know that I support you and am sorry that you are being singled out and attacked. Know that others also support your stand but don't want to enter because they will also be attacked. Good luck.
It is sad to come to an adoption forum and be attacked because you believe that adoption can be a good thing for all parties involved.
People don't advertise for babies but with an offering of a situation for a pregnant woman who wants to make a plan for a baby that she is unable or unwilling to parent. Many, many women have been very thankful for these offers. So, it's on Craiglists? I don't see the issue there either. Unless you are looking for that sort of ad, I don't see how it would be forcing or enticing someone to give up a baby they had decided to raise. When I was pregnant, I would never been swayed to give up my baby because I saw an ad offering a life filled with riches and opportunities that I might never be able to provide my baby with.
With people being more health conscious, the babies being born to older mothers are healthier and have less genetic issues than they used to. I have a granddaughter born to a 39 year old mother and a friend that had a child at 39 and one at 41, perfectly healthy. Interestingly, our son with DS and those of 4 friends were born to mothers less than 18 years of age. I can't see a reason that one should rush to have child - it isn't like we are farm animals where the quality of stock is the only goal.
Sheena12: You don't have to try to argue with the ones that are attacking you, it will just happen. I wanted to let you know that I support you and am sorry that you are being singled out and attacked. Know that others also support your stand but don't want to enter because they will also be attacked. Good luck.
I don't think you understand the difference between dialogue, including healthy debate, and an attack. Disagreeing with someone is NOT an attack.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnywhereElse
It is sad to come to an adoption forum and be attacked because you believe that adoption can be a good thing for all parties involved.
Again, disagreement is not attack. I challenge you to put together a group of strangers from all different backgrounds and have them uniformly agree on any one single topic. This is not unique to adoption. If you are looking for people to 100% agree with everything you have to say on any topic, you will have to limit your discussions severely. Which it looks like you are finding out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnywhereElse
People don't advertise for babies but with an offering of a situation for a pregnant woman who wants to make a plan for a baby that she is unable or unwilling to parent. Many, many women have been very thankful for these offers. So, it's on Craiglists? I don't see the issue there either. Unless you are looking for that sort of ad, I don't see how it would be forcing or enticing someone to give up a baby they had decided to raise. When I was pregnant, I would never been swayed to give up my baby because I saw an ad offering a life filled with riches and opportunities that I might never be able to provide my baby with.
You don't see an issue. Others do see an issue. Again, a difference of opinion.
Understand that you cannot take your own personal experience and apply it to every other single person. Life doesn't work like that. Everyone is an individual.
A woman who does not have any support system in place, does not have health insurance, does not have a supportive partner, has limited monetary funds, or any combination of other factors could definitely be swayed by the promise of a better life for her child. This is false advertising because nothing is sure in life except death or taxes. An adoptive couple may divorce; they may lose their jobs; one of them may pass away; they may abuse the child. Adoption is not a sure things for a child. While some women legitimately choose adoption because they are not ready, able, or willing to keep their child, the facts should be presented to them. Not a rosy picture of half-truths.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnywhereElse
With people being more health conscious, the babies being born to older mothers are healthier and have less genetic issues than they used to. I have a granddaughter born to a 39 year old mother and a friend that had a child at 39 and one at 41, perfectly healthy. Interestingly, our son with DS and those of 4 friends were born to mothers less than 18 years of age. I can't see a reason that one should rush to have child - it isn't like we are farm animals where the quality of stock is the only goal.
It's nice that you think this, but this is not fact. Women do indeed have a biological clock with a limited window in which they can procreate. While some women are able to have children into their 40s and even 50s, this is not the usual or normal case. Genetic issues have nothing to do with the health of a woman; they are related to genes. If you are referring to issues like Down Syndrome, the risk of having a baby with DS does indeed increase with age.
Just as a note, this is not a personal attack on you. This is a response to the points you made in your post. My disagreement with you is not an indication that I am anti-adoption or that I don't think there are good adoptive parents. I consider myself in the latter group, as a matter of fact. In part because I listen to the voices of adoptees and take great consideration to what they have to say.
I am really not trying to argue with anyone. I was raised very differently and the thought of having a baby at 20 never entered my mind.
And so since you were raised a certain way you get to dictate LAWS to other people? Including whether or not other, married, adults can raise their own children?
Quote:
I do not see many child abuse cases, murders, children being removed from their families, etc among for example, a couple who is 29 and 32 with a bachelor's degree and a masters degree who are home owners and have done some traveling, had some fun, and are settled and financially secure.
And this is why making up opinions based on nothing is a bad idea.
Children born to parents in some religious fundamental groups are more likely to be abused, should children be taken away based on the religion of the parent?
Children born to certain socioeconomic groups are more likely to be abused, should those children be taken away?
If you cannot see that it is inherently wrong to take a child from its parents based on nothing more than their age, you are not rational. Stereotyping and punishing all members of a group based on the behavior of a subset of the group has been the root of racism, sexism, and nearly every other case of discrimination there is.
Quote:
So, when I see a nineteen year old and a two year old together, I usually wish that they were siblings, rather than parent and child. From my perspective, both are kids.
And what is fundamentally wrong with that statement isn't your right to your opinion, just that you think you should have the legal right to take children from their parents based on that perspective.
Absolutely, ridiculous and makes you appear completely irrational.
You have no right to take mine or any other person's child away based on nothing more than their age.
Sheena12: You don't have to try to argue with the ones that are attacking you, it will just happen. I wanted to let you know that I support you and am sorry that you are being singled out and attacked. Know that others also support your stand but don't want to enter because they will also be attacked. Good luck.
It is sad to come to an adoption forum and be attacked because you believe that adoption can be a good thing for all parties involved.
People don't advertise for babies but with an offering of a situation for a pregnant woman who wants to make a plan for a baby that she is unable or unwilling to parent. Many, many women have been very thankful for these offers. So, it's on Craiglists? I don't see the issue there either. Unless you are looking for that sort of ad, I don't see how it would be forcing or enticing someone to give up a baby they had decided to raise. When I was pregnant, I would never been swayed to give up my baby because I saw an ad offering a life filled with riches and opportunities that I might never be able to provide my baby with.
With people being more health conscious, the babies being born to older mothers are healthier and have less genetic issues than they used to. I have a granddaughter born to a 39 year old mother and a friend that had a child at 39 and one at 41, perfectly healthy. Interestingly, our son with DS and those of 4 friends were born to mothers less than 18 years of age. I can't see a reason that one should rush to have child - it isn't like we are farm animals where the quality of stock is the only goal.
And who are you to judge let alone legislate when people should have children?
And as for "older" parents, that was reason number one both my husband and I chose to have our daughter young. My father was in his forties when I (his oldest child) was born, he was in his 60s when his youngest child was born. He had dead before my littlest sister was out of diapers.
There are certainly negatives for the children of many older parents, not the least of which is the very real consequence of losing their parents when they are still young and for many of us, they out weight the positives.
Oh, and a recent study found that even those "older" parents would recommend having children 5 to 10 years earlier than they themselves chose.
Ultimately, you and Sheena have no right to tell anyone when they can or cannot parent their own children, let alone FORCE the to give those children up for adoption.
Sheena12: You don't have to try to argue with the ones that are attacking you, it will just happen. I wanted to let you know that I support you and am sorry that you are being singled out and attacked. Know that others also support your stand but don't want to enter because they will also be attacked. Good luck.
It is sad to come to an adoption forum and be attacked because you believe that adoption can be a good thing for all parties involved.
People don't advertise for babies but with an offering of a situation for a pregnant woman who wants to make a plan for a baby that she is unable or unwilling to parent. Many, many women have been very thankful for these offers. So, it's on Craiglists? I don't see the issue there either. Unless you are looking for that sort of ad, I don't see how it would be forcing or enticing someone to give up a baby they had decided to raise. When I was pregnant, I would never been swayed to give up my baby because I saw an ad offering a life filled with riches and opportunities that I might never be able to provide my baby with.
With people being more health conscious, the babies being born to older mothers are healthier and have less genetic issues than they used to. I have a granddaughter born to a 39 year old mother and a friend that had a child at 39 and one at 41, perfectly healthy. Interestingly, our son with DS and those of 4 friends were born to mothers less than 18 years of age. I can't see a reason that one should rush to have child - it isn't like we are farm animals where the quality of stock is the only goal.
Agree with everything that you wrote. Nice to see another point of view here.
I do not think that 19 year olds are adults either, and November was National Adoption Awareness Month and I think that only one person wrote about it.
Agree with everything that you wrote. Nice to see another point of view here.
I do not think that 19 year olds are adults either, and November was National Adoption Awareness Month and I think that only one person wrote about it.
Adoption is not tragic. Child abuse is tragic.
It doesn't matter what you think. 18 year old are adults, so 19 year olds surely are.
Legislating a mother's rights away from her based on an arbitrary value like age is... Insanity. Ridiculous. Insulting. Wrong. Although it was never a law, the practice if coercing young unwed women into giving up their babies in the Baby Scoop Era turned out horribly, miserably bad. We still have a long way to go, but when I see people still advocating a return to archaic and barbaric practices, I just shake my head in disbelief.
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