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How, then, would you suggest talking about adoption? The fact is, it IS a transaction, and not a particularly enjoyable one at that.
The RESULT of the adoption "transaction," however, is something entirely different.
Honestly, and I'm not trying to be rude or anything, but I can't imagine why you wouldn't make a mental distinction between the difficult, odious, expensive, sometimes heart-wrenching adoption process, versus the post-adoption fact of being a parent, with all the ups and downs that go along with it.
As for how much you paid for your son, my answer to that question is "why do you ask?" If the person doing the asking is considering adopting a child of their own and is trying to learn what is entailed, we can talk. Otherwise, the answer is "I prefer not to discuss that." (Oh, and even if I choose to discuss the financial side of things, I'll make sure they understand that I didn't "buy" a child, but rather paid for services rendered, just like you do for any other transaction.)
I agree. On some level, it is a transaction, and money is very much a part of it.
We are not "paying for our children" as one would buy an automobile. However, we are paying for the services that surround the transaction. Locating the child, the home study, agency fees - it's not free.
Even giving birth is not "free". When I had my biological son, we had to pay the hospital, the gynecologist, in my case, the anesthesiologist and other professionals. I had a C-section and spent 5 days in the hospital. That certainly was not "free".
Some of it was covered by insurance. Some was not.
Adoption is just another way to add to one's family. Why are people always trying to marginalize it, and make it "weird"?
I agree. I have yet to meet an adoptive parent who said "I paid X and got Y baby" or anything like that. If you have, I can understand why you would find it disgusting.
To me, that's completely different from discussing the cost of an adoption. Yes, adoption costs money. There's no shame in admitting that, and even discussing it in appropriate situations (such as the one where you were discussing costs with a prospective foster parent).
I did not see anything in the original post, or any comments by the OP, that would imply that she regards adoption as "baby buying." I would caution you to be more temperate in your words, as your comment could be regarded as a personal attack against the OP.
The OP literally said that it was 5k for X baby from whatever country and then such and such amount for two more babies from another country. It happened, in this very thread. You may not have met the OP, but you have certainly seen a person describe their adoption as buying a child. You're being dishonest if you suggest otherwise.
iN 1983 IT WAS ONLY $5K and 6 weeks from homestudy approval till 3 month old baby girl from Korea was in our arms escorted to the states by Eastern Airlines employees.
In 2002 it was 9 months from the day I mailed the dossier to the state department and adoption agency till I had 4 month old baby girl from Vietnam in my arms. Then 7 months later I went to Vietnam for second baby girl who was 7 months old. In all I made 4 trips to VN in 11 months and it was close to $50k. And on the last trip to pick up second baby my facilitator was kicked out of the country for all sorts of crimes and I was left to finish it all by myself. What a nightmare!
Skyebright- you are new here. I've been a very active member of CD and especially this adoption subforum since 2008 and most people who participate here know me and my adoption stories. Never in a million years did I think I would have to defend my language and especially to a fellow adoptive parent. So let's look at my post which set you off.
"It was only $5k and six weeks......" It stands for the adoption. Never did I say I paid $5k to buy my child.
"...it was close to $50k..." Means the ADOPTION of my 2 girls was close to $50 K not that I paid $50K for my two girls. If I had said "She cost $5k" or "They cost $50k " that would be something else.
My DH and I adopted a baby Korean girl when we were living south of Atlanta in 1983. She was the only Asian kid in our church and in her elementary school. Believe me, I've had every question under the sun posed to me , including "how much did she cost" so I'm very sensitive to rude and insensitive comments. And I don't make them.
You are very naive if you don't know that one of the first concerns any prospective adoptive parent has is "How much will IT (the adoption) cost". Many have no idea how expensive it is or help which may or may not be available. We, as adoptive parents, should take the opportunity to educate folks where appropriate. Proper language is important as is respecting boundaries. I certainly DON'T go around discussing the expenses involved in our 3 adoptions. Neither would I discuss the expenses involved in the birth of our son. But when talking to a group about adoption or even to somebody contemplating adoption and I can help shed some light on a very complex subject I am more than happy to help.
The OP literally said that it was 5k for X baby from whatever country and then such and such amount for two more babies from another country. It happened, in this very thread. You may not have met the OP, but you have certainly seen a person describe their adoption as buying a child. You're being dishonest if you suggest otherwise.
With all due respect, you are mistaken. I have never personally encountered an adoptive parent who described their adoption as "buying a child" or anything similar to that. While such people may exist, I've never met them.
This, of course, is quite different than saying that other people have described adoption in those terms. But adoptive parents? Nope, not that I've ever seen.
I agree. On some level, it is a transaction, and money is very much a part of it.
There are transactions that are necessary to facilitate and complete the legal process known as adoption. But the adoption itself is not (in my opinion) a transaction.
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We are not "paying for our children" as one would buy an automobile. However, we are paying for the services that surround the transaction. Locating the child, the home study, agency fees - it's not free.
Even giving birth is not "free". When I had my biological son, we had to pay the hospital, the gynecologist, in my case, the anesthesiologist and other professionals. I had a C-section and spent 5 days in the hospital. That certainly was not "free".
All correct. And the analogy of giving birth is a very good one. Someone (yourself or your insurance, or both) pays the hospital and the doctors to ensure the birth is safe and healthy. But no one is paying anyone for a baby. Someone is paying lawyers, case workers, doctors, foster parents, etc., to ensure that the adoption is legal and proper, and that the child is well cared for during the process. But no one is (or should be anyway) paying anyone for a child.
The OP literally said that it was 5k for X baby from whatever country and then such and such amount for two more babies from another country. It happened, in this very thread. You may not have met the OP, but you have certainly seen a person describe their adoption as buying a child. You're being dishonest if you suggest otherwise.
No, the OP didn't literally say anything of the kind.
She said "it was only $X and 6 weeks ... till baby girl was in our arms".
And "it was 9 months ... till I had 4 month old baby girl in my arms" (no mention on money at all there)
And "In all I made 4 trips to VN in 11 months and it was close to $X" (no mention of child there)
You can spin it any way you want I suppose. But I only see an adoptive parent relating how the expenses and timeline required to complete an international adoption have increased over the decades.
Well as someone who just began looking into the adoption process I can tell you that I am thankful for people like no kudzu who cut to the chase.
Cost is not a small factor. It's a huge factor. You can be broke and give birth. But everyone knows adoption costs money. And I'm beginning to see that one needs to come from a place of privilege to adopt. (ie not living paycheck to paycheck like most Americans) The question is what are we looking at? 10k? 20k? 50k? The first two numbers I can do. The last one is out of my range. So YES before I even begin the grueling process I appreciate knowing what is do-able financially.
Also I had no idea that adoptions from China and other Asian countries has gotten not only so much more expensive but time consuming. Someone on an adoption forum told me that to compare, she adopted a baby girl from China in 2002 within 9 months. She recently looked into adopting another baby and was told a healthy baby is a 10 year wait. If you want a child in 9 months you have to look into older children and those with special needs.
This is information that is good to know. What is the point in tiptoeing around the two big hurdles of cost and time? What good does that do for anyone?
Anyway I'm a newbie to this forum and a newbie to the adoption world in general. So I'm thankful to people who bluntly answer questions
Thank you for your comments. Yes, most people are surprised to learn how expensive infant adoption is. But...it still happens and not only for rich folks. The thing to do is TELL EVERYBODY you are interested in adoption. Be open to children you might not have otherwise considered like a different race, a sibling group, a special needs child, etc. Just make sure you do enough research to have a good idea what you are getting yourself into. Of course nobody can anticipate all the aspects of adoption or even parenthood but the more people you talk to, the more books you read and the more research you do, the better prepared you will be.
Be open to children you might not have otherwise considered like a different race, a sibling group, a special needs child, etc.
While I agree with this, I would also caution you to remember the old saying, "To thine own self be true." Adopting a child is not the time to be overly swayed by political correctness. Be brutally honest with yourself. Many people can and do adopt children from different races. But is that something that you would be comfortable doing? And if so, does that apply to every other race, or just certain ones? Be honest. If you really and truly, in your heart of hearts, can't see a child of [insert name of different race here] being part of your family, then do yourself and a potential adoptee from that race a favor, and don't adopt them.
Thank you for your comments. Yes, most people are surprised to learn how expensive infant adoption is. But...it still happens and not only for rich folks. The thing to do is TELL EVERYBODY you are interested in adoption. Be open to children you might not have otherwise considered like a different race, a sibling group, a special needs child,...
And an older child, too! "Know what you are getting into" is especially important here of course, as older child adoption has its own set of potential problems. But, be open to it nonetheless.
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Originally Posted by bus man
While I agree with this, I would also caution you to remember the old saying, "To thine own self be true." Adopting a child is not the time to be overly swayed by political correctness. Be brutally honest with yourself. Many people can and do adopt children from different races. But is that something that you would be comfortable doing? And if so, does that apply to every other race, or just certain ones? Be honest. If you really and truly, in your heart of hearts, can't see a child of [insert name of different race here] being part of your family, then do yourself and a potential adoptee from that race a favor, and don't adopt them.
Not just you and your spouse, but your extended family too. Grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins, etc. Our agency insisted on letters of support from grandparents on both sides of the family.
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