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Boeing unveiled their Starliner in 2010. It's now 2024 and they have yet to fly a human crewed mission. They have had failure after failure after failure that have delayed the program for years. Even if they manage to get this certification and it works, it's far more expensive to operate than the SpaceX craft, and it's unlikely to replicate their reliability and their cycle time. And this despite the Boeing design being simpler, and in fact, the booster rocket that carries the Starliner most of the way is *not* a brand new rocket - it's the Atlas V, now being manufactured by ULA - this should have made development much faster and easier than what SpaceX has had to accomplish.
SpaceX had the Falcon 9/Dragon certified to fly human crewed missions in 2020 and have been doing so successfully since then. They have also gone on to develop the Falcon Heavy rocket and the Starship after that. In addition to human crewed missions, SpaceX has flown hundreds of cargo missions, and indeed Elon Musk has set up his own satellite internet company with satellites launched by his aerospace company.
The NASA requirements were for an inexpensive, reliable, reusable rocket capable of earth-orbit missions, and the SpaceX program not only got it all done years earlier, they have outperformed Boeing on all three of those major goals - cheaper, more reliable and more reusable.
Many people have thrilled to see the SpaceX Falcon 9 and Falcon Heavy booster rockets making controlled landings back on earth. According to the Wiki: "Falcon 9 first-stage boosters landed successfully in 266 of 277 attempts (96%), with 241 out of 245 (98.4%) for the Falcon 9 Block 5 version. A total of 239 re-flights of first stage boosters have all successfully launched their payloads."
The SpaceX systems perform like Buck Rogers stuff, while the Boeing system performs like Three Stooges stuff.
Now The Federal Aviation Administration has issued a Safety Alert for Operators of Boeing 737-900ER aircraft which use the same door plug design that fell-off in-flight during the Alaska Airlines Flight. It suppose to gather necessary data to determine the root cause of the fault.
Amidst the growing controversy around its aircraft, Boeing named retired Admiral Kirkland H. Donald, U.S. Navy as a “special advisor to Boeing President and CEO Dave Calhoun” last week.
Wonder why him? He is is a retired Admiral in the United States Navy, not a specialist in aeronautics.
.... Boeing has been around for more than 100 years, and people insist that's why they're obviously the best. And yet, they've been completed outclassed by the SpaceX team - a startup company. ...
true, my last flight I was on a spaceX plane coast to coast....very comfy.
Wonder why him? He is is a retired Admiral in the United States Navy, not a specialist in aeronautics.
prolly cuz he actually has a deep tech background AND large project with multiple source mgmt, they are not asking him to design the plane, but rather manage the process that makes it. Ever since Deming was around, its a new approach anyone successful uses,
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kyle19125
Applying what amounts to lately as a secondary instinct....take a moment to think through the situation.
Weirdly enough it's a big fat issue after umpteen thousand flights on varying Boeing 737-900s.
Why now suddenly?
1) the retention and strength of the door plug is quite sufficient and robust when correctly installed, and in 'Rest' / static position. (Gravity helps!, as the door nests in its proper installed position 'Down'. ). But.... To properly secure it in the FIXED position auxiliary bolts must be installed and tightened!! >>> To keep it in place<<<. I.e. DOWN.
Correctly in position, it has retainer brackets (stop buttons) that the pressurized cabin keeps plug locked in position.
It lifts and rotates out for Maintenance. (After removing mandatory retention bolts).
However... It is now admitted that Boeing assembly had removed this plug for maintenance, and neglected re-installing the mandatory retention bolts.
Thus a significant vertical bounce (while not pressurized) could shift door plug out of position, and more importantly, off it's pressurized location with stop buttons to avoid blowing out when pressurized. While sufficient, we now know that incomplete installation process can:
A) allow door plug to appear to be in the correct position, (all trim panels snap into place, no one would see the missing bolts.
B) pass all visible checks
C) pass pressurization tests, (functions fine, without .missing retention bolts)
So essentially you have what appears to be a correct installation, but... A catastrophic failure waiting to happen.
Under pressure, the door plug would perform as designed, and would not be jarred out of position. But... If no retention bolts, and plane gets bumped while on the ground (not pressurized)(maintenance, preparing for takeoff, and door plug gets bumped UP out of assembled position.... As soon as pressurization starts ~10,000 ft on the way to 30,000+ cruising altitude... Boom, whoosh... Door plug goes sailing.
Of course now we know that this design is very problematic and at risk of catastrophe failure from a simple installation mistake.
That has no place in commercial airframe design, and is totally avoidable. And I presume total redesign was pursued on 6 Jan 2024. But...FAA and manf changes will take years to implement a new improved, impossible to mis-install, as well as impossible to blow out under failure. I.e. a Plug Door insert should be used as a door plug! Impossible to blow out.
There are also very simple design features that could be added to assure the door plug could never be assembled without a secure (impossible to move out of position or assemble unless correct and completely secure). Interior trim would not fit, unless door plug is correctly, and permanently in position.
Plenty of ways to FIX this (forever). I trust it's being done. I probably don't want to know. (Flying an 737 ER tomorrow)
UK passenger David Parker grew alarmed after noticing pieces of tape on the wing of a Boeing 787 during a flight to India, as seen in shocking photos.
They are, indeed, unsettling but apparently the sticky material was used to keep paint from peeling off
Boeing's recent performance developing aircraft for the DoD is no better than their development for space programs or commercial airliners. The example below was not an ambitious program, but they still found a way to do a faceplant. Boeing has lost their shirt on the program, and yet, they've also underperformed dramatically.
Quote:
"The U.S. Air Force’s next-generation tanker was supposed to be the ideal candidate for a fixed-price development program.
Indeed, when Boeing first won the deal to build what’s now known as the KC-46, the defense contractor said it would use a 'low-risk approach', basing its design on the existing Boeing 767 commercial airplane. The contract was firm-fixed-price, meaning Boeing was on the hook if costs ran higher than expected.
Nearly 13 years later, Boeing has absorbed $7 billion in cost overruns, far more than the contract value of $4.9 billion. For years, the tanker, designed to refuel aircraft in flight, has been plagued by delays, production errors and a faulty vision system that required a complete redesign."
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