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Now I think the "quality start" is overrated....3 runs in 6 innings shouldn't be a quality start but my MLB's standards it is, and that's what Kershaw allowed last night. Much like Max Scherzer in the WC game he allowed 3 runs in the first 2 innings, fell behind early, but aside from that allowed 0's the final 4 innings he pitched, kept his team in the game, and gave his team a chance to win....much like Max did on Tuesday. Now that I've had the day to think about it Kershaw didn't really pitch that bad. Should you want less than 3 runs in 6 innings from your ace pitcher?? Probably, but as I said that was a "quality start" by MLB standards so tough to blame him....in 2019 with the record number of homers leaving the yard it's difficult to shut out an opponent at all, yet alone in 2 straight playoff games. The faults for the Dodgers lie with Pollack (6 strike outs in the series), Bellinger (everyone posting in this thread has as many hits this season as he does....0!) and Seager (everyone knew that final pitch was going to be a slider down). THOSE were the key reasons for why the Dodgers lost NOT Kershaw. Much like if Soto doesn't bail the Nats out on Tuesday, them not stringing any hits together and failing in the 8th with the bases loaded would've been the reasons why the Nats lost on Tuesday....NOT because Scherzer gave up 2 home runs in the first 2 innings.
Good god, I'd hate to imagine what you would be like if it was actually something that mattered.
Baseball does matter.
And who cares if somebody brings up postseason performances of the past? Is it that deep that we have to stay strictly in 2019? It's October for Pete's sake.
And who cares if somebody brings up postseason performances of the past? Is it that deep that we have to stay strictly in 2019? It's October for Pete's sake.
I hate continuing this conversation but I just don't understand why that poster is getting defensive on what I originally said. So yes I got defensive as well.
They said Kershaw is a "post season dud"
I replied that he's had good & bad outings so that is not true & if you think it is you've only remembered the bad games in the last 6 years.
They respond as if I have no bearing to talk about the past post season games because this is a 2019 thread.
If that is the case then he is wrong about Kershaw being a post season dud because going 6 innings and giving up 3 runs is not horrible. It's not great but it still gives your team a chance to win.
I'll say it again. If you're going to make a statement about a player being a dud based off past experiences don't ignore the good ones & don't tell me I can't use prior years (from 2019) as my argument.
I mentioned Scherzer in thread because he is yet to get a post season win yet nobody talks about that but love to throw Kershaw under the bus. As a Dodgers fan I get tired of seeing that so I am going to defend Kershaw in a lot of situations like that just like I'm going to be honest about his failures too.
And who cares if somebody brings up postseason performances of the past? Is it that deep that we have to stay strictly in 2019? It's October for Pete's sake.
Are you kidding me with that ridiculous response? Why in the world are you suggesting such a thing? Wow, a few of you are going way off the deep end off my original post. I never could imagine that simply stating that Kershaw has performed poorly in the post season would create such a ruckus. Nobody is stopping anyone from talking about anything from any prior year. And "baseball does matter". Obviously, in context of what I wrote, you really took that statement and ran with it, didn't you chief? If people are going to respond, read the context of what was written and don't simply get all emotional and hell bent of trying to create separate arguments that have zero relevancy as to what I originally posted.
I hate continuing this conversation but I just don't understand why that poster is getting defensive on what I originally said. So yes I got defensive as well.
They said Kershaw is a "post season dud"
I replied that he's had good & bad outings so that is not true & if you think it is you've only remembered the bad games in the last 6 years.
They respond as if I have no bearing to talk about the past post season games because this is a 2019 thread.
If that is the case then he is wrong about Kershaw being a post season dud because going 6 innings and giving up 3 runs is not horrible. It's not great but it still gives your team a chance to win.
I'll say it again. If you're going to make a statement about a player being a dud based off past experiences don't ignore the good ones & don't tell me I can't use prior years (from 2019) as my argument.
I mentioned Scherzer in thread because he is yet to get a post season win yet nobody talks about that but love to throw Kershaw under the bus. As a Dodgers fan I get tired of seeing that so I am going to defend Kershaw in a lot of situations like that just like I'm going to be honest about his failures too.
The only on getting defensive is you. You've made a total mountain out of a mole hill. It is unreal. You can use any year you wish, just cite some stats, ANY kind of stats- any time period. This is what? Seven replies now without a single citation? Yes, anyone with a pulse knows Kershaw has some good outings as well. Where you get this, "I'm not allowed to use any year but 2019" crap, I have not the foggiest idea.
The only on getting defensive is you. You've made a total mountain out of a mole hill. It is unreal. You can use any year you wish, just cite some stats, ANY kind of stats- any time period. This is what? Seven replies now without a single citation? Yes, anyone with a pulse knows Kershaw has some good outings as well. Where you get this, "I'm not allowed to use any year but 2019" crap, I have not the foggiest idea.
You said..
"Again. I ignore the good ones because this is a 2019 postseason thread."
So how can you say Kershaw is a post season dud by only going by 1 game in 2019?
Can you explain that? If you think 3 runs in 6 innings equates to post season dud just say it & I'll stop replying because that's your opinion that most people would disagree with.
"Again. I ignore the good ones because this is a 2019 postseason thread."
So how can you say Kershaw is a post season dud by only going by 1 game in 2019?
Can you explain that? If you think 3 runs in 6 innings equates to post season dud just say it & I'll stop replying because that's your opinion that most people would disagree with.
All I'm doing is reacting to a shaky start right out of the gate, because this is the playoff thread. I would never state anybody as a postseason dud if the body of work was one, or even a couple of career starts. Again, I don't where you are inferring such a thing. He has been a huge disappointment in the postseason, even with some quality outings such as last year, has he not? I don't care what someone else posts, they can cite something from 1995 for all I care.
Now I think we agree to end this back-and-forth. But you do move the conversation forward if you want to bring up the "quality start" aspect based on the outing the other night. That is much more subjective, as to what is "quality". Three runs in six innings equates to a 4.5 ERA, which falls in line with Kershaw's career postseason ERA. Now, I'm not going to label it an awful night for him either. But his struggles in the first inning is something we've seen time and time again; missing wildly, hitting batsmen, etc... I'm more forgiving if he served up a home run with one bad pitch. He did get out of the inning with minimal damage ultimately. And he did retire eight straight hitters later on. So it wasn't an awful outing. But let's also face it: if you are a Dodger fan who watches Kershaw regularly pitch, the other night is disappointing, as you've seen this way too often throughout the years.
All I'm doing is reacting to a shaky start right out of the gate, because this is the playoff thread. I would never state anybody as a postseason dud if the body of work was one, or even a couple of career starts. Again, I don't where you are inferring such a thing. He has been a huge disappointment in the postseason, even with some quality outings such as last year, has he not? I don't care what someone else posts, they can cite something from 1995 for all I care.
Now I think we agree to end this back-and-forth. But you do move the conversation forward if you want to bring up the "quality start" aspect based on the outing the other night. That is much more subjective, as to what is "quality". Three runs in six innings equates to a 4.5 ERA, which falls in line with Kershaw's career postseason ERA. Now, I'm not going to label it an awful night for him either. But his struggles in the first inning is something we've seen time and time again; missing wildly, hitting batsmen, etc... I'm more forgiving if he served up a home run with one bad pitch. He did get out of the inning with minimal damage ultimately. And he did retire eight straight hitters later on. So it wasn't an awful outing. But let's also face it: if you are a Dodger fan who watches Kershaw regularly pitch, the other night is disappointing, as you've seen this way too often throughout the years.
If we were talking about this in person instead of a message board I'm sure the dialog would be different. I am a big Dodgers fan & I will admit that Kershaw overall is not a post season pitcher consistently because the bad out weigh the good. Nobody remembers the many times when he's had a solid outing, they just remember the Cardinals getting to him in the 6th or Game 5 of the World Series in 2017.
I just see it all the time on message boards, social media etc. where people call him a post season failure but they never say the same about other pitchers. David Price is a good example. Price never got the type of public shaming that Kershaw got in social media & message boards. Maybe it's because Kershaw is there every year & it's a yearly reminder to non Dodger fans how he has 1 good game then struggles the next (which is usually a more important game).
The point that I brought up Scherzer is similar to Price. I never hear people talking bad about Scherzer struggling in the post season & without a win yet people are so quick to talk down about Kershaw when reality is he's at least won some games.
But like I said in the beginning. If we were talking about this in person this conversation probably goes about differently.
If we were talking about this in person instead of a message board I'm sure the dialog would be different. I am a big Dodgers fan & I will admit that Kershaw overall is not a post season pitcher consistently because the bad out weigh the good. Nobody remembers the many times when he's had a solid outing, they just remember the Cardinals getting to him in the 6th or Game 5 of the World Series in 2017.
I just see it all the time on message boards, social media etc. where people call him a post season failure but they never say the same about other pitchers. David Price is a good example. Price never got the type of public shaming that Kershaw got in social media & message boards. Maybe it's because Kershaw is there every year & it's a yearly reminder to non Dodger fans how he has 1 good game then struggles the next (which is usually a more important game).
The point that I brought up Scherzer is similar to Price. I never hear people talking bad about Scherzer struggling in the post season & without a win yet people are so quick to talk down about Kershaw when reality is he's at least won some games.
But like I said in the beginning. If we were talking about this in person this conversation probably goes about differently.
Believe me, they talk about David Price. Maybe not where you are, or with the outlets you view/listen to. I hear Boston sports outlets, and last year despite a 108 win season, fans and media alike lamented the fact that he was in the rotation. He is, and I'll use the phrase again, "a postseason dud", even despite a very good start last October. He is as despised as any Boston athlete for quite some time- and that's a tall order in that circle of negativity that is Boston sports. All things being created equal, Kershaw is better than Price, so he is going to get held to a higher standard. I've heard some complaints of Scherzer too on a national level. Again, some of it and the fervor of it, is based on where you live and what outlets you utilize.
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