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Actually, "they" in but especially those embolden areas aren't all black. The main leaders whom are push the revitalization of those aforementioned neighborhoods are a coalition of most white urban pioneers and a handful of longtime black residents. I worked in a variety of governmental entities when I lived in Birmingham and they aren't all black at all. Most of the employments that hold that type of power in the City of Birmingham departments involved in revitalization like PEP (Planning, Engineering, and Permits) and Community Development are headed by white guys. Additionally, most of the other non-profit entities involved in those related areas (like REV Birmingham, Birmingham Business Alliance) with the exception of RPCGB (Regional Planning Commission of Greater Birmingham) mostly employ white men and women as well with only 1 or 2 black employees and those people are usually either administrative assistants or low-on-the-totem-pole coordinators.
Overall, this movement is being led by mostly white urban professionals with some blacks political officials being the ceremonial heads of the accomplishments. However, there are very few black professional that aren't elected to office (like Birmingham City Councilman Johnathan Austin) directly involved in most of these initiatives. I have plenty of friends that are either urban planners or community development professionals that have confirmed this to be still a fact of the matter with Birmingham's revitalization.
Oh yeah, I'm a black LGBT male that is a Birmingham native and former urban planning professional in the region that moved to Atlanta recently...
Thats great information but the main point I was trying to get across was that the main strides Birmingham is making is happening in areas where whites have been reluctant to go aside from work. And not "only for whites" as the OP stated. I am well aware that many smart affluent white people are a major force behind Birmingham's resurgence and I was not trying to give credit to just one group of people.
Isn't it great that we have a city government in place at the moment that can either get on board with worthy projects or step aside and let others get things done. I know the mayor has to walk a tight rope because so many residents don't understand the economics of healing the city and growing its tax base while bringing more people into the city proper and the growth and gentrification becomes self-fulfilling. At this point the neighborhoods will be using new dollars for improvement instead of tax dollars from their own pockets.
This has been a tough sell in Birmingham and many other cities where the neighborhoods just can't see that a city has to have the catalyst in place for growth. Many still resent any money spent downtown. I think they are so blind to the private dollars it brings in. Improvements to the neighborhoods just normally do not bring in much in the way of private investment until a real gentrification is occurring and many don't like that especially.
All in all though, it has been a long time since I have seen so many people working together in Birmingham for a common goal. And you know what?, I don't even keep up with who is what color, I keep up with who has their eye on the ball.
I think it is going to be a good year in Birmingham. (a confession: I will never get over the eight years we wasted with Bernard Kincaid. I don't know him, he is probably a nice man, but he had no business at the helm of this city, he could not make decisions and had no vision. All at a time when we needed it so badly. Oh, let's hope that period is over and qualified and inspired people are elected)
Tourian, local people know what you are trying to say. You have a good spirit. Our new friend from Atlanta has pointed out some things that others do forget and need to know.
Let's hope we never go back to a place where one believes they can do without the other. We've made that mistake twice now and that is enough.
Most whites left the CITY of Birmingham in the late 60s and 70s to form their own cities on another side of a mountain and yet we have someone who claims that it was the blacks that "self segregated" themselves. That is probably one of the most idiotic post I ever read on these forums.
Anyway speaking as someone who was born and raised in the CITY of Birmingham (but currently lives in the Atlanta metro), Birmingham is made up of mostly poor to working class blacks with sprinkles of middle class blacks over the city. Comparing Birmingham to Atlanta is apples and oranges. In addition to the local blacks, Atlanta has a lot of black transplants from all over the country. Many of them are culturally different from the blacks in Birmingham. Atlanta has a much larger and thriving black middle class.
Most whites left the CITY of Birmingham in the late 60s and 70s to form their own cities on another side of a mountain and yet we have someone who claims that it was the blacks that "self segregated" themselves. That is probably one of the most idiotic post I ever read on these forums.
Anyway speaking as someone who was born and raised in the CITY of Birmingham (but currently lives in the Atlanta metro), Birmingham is made up of mostly poor to working class blacks with sprinkles of middle class blacks over the city. Comparing Birmingham to Atlanta is apples and oranges. In addition to the local blacks, Atlanta has a lot of black transplants from all over the country. Many of them are culturally different from the blacks in Birmingham. Atlanta has a much larger and thriving black middle class.
I always cringe when I see posts and threads with titles that include the words, 'black' and 'white'. They seem to attract black and white viewpoints, as in there are no grey areas in life. LIFE IS MOSTLY GREY. I am not writing about the color of people here, but their attitudes.
We have many obsessed people from Atlanta 'METRO' that come to the forum to discharge some anger and frustration and perhaps a little vendetta. I don't know why. I find if one is living in a place they like and have a productive life that expending the effort to do so is ludicrous.
Many are like you who claim to be ex-patriots and yet seem the most antagonized by all things Birmingham.
Your knowledge of Birmingham is very limited and that is probably a good thing for you. I will point out that all but Hoover were in existence long before 'white flight' had begun or the term even used. And I will point out the term was not coined for Birmingham. It is a term that has been used to describe an American phenomenon that has occurred in EVERY single city in America. (including your Atlanta; Cobb, north Fulton, and beyond)
Atlanta has a large population spread over a disproportionate area of north Georgia. For this reason it has an exceptionally large black population that is diluted by the much whiter counties in the far flung areas of the metro. We will never have the number of poor and under educated black people that you have in Atlanta, which even surpasses New Orleans and Memphis. It is sad that those people in Atlanta are so easily overlooked by all the economic progress that transpired there in the past fifty years.
The black people moving into metro Birmingham are coming here for medical and other tech jobs, such as auto manufacturing. It is an insult for anyone to suggests that black people are somehow not in a position to choose directions in their lives. Of course there are cultural differences among various peoples. One can say self segregation, but in reality no one is seeking segregation is just often occurs when one is focused on their own interests.
For this reason there are many organizations that exists for the good works they do, but to also ensure that we don't forget to acknowledge and interact with each other in a manner of friendship and civic pride.
Outsiders such as yourself see things in such a static way. It is amazing that you would not expect that in a city that had an even harder time than many others in adjusting to the social changes of the fifties and sixties that we would not be particularly sensitive to the needs to heal and nurture the relationships that exist between the populace and various geographical areas of the metro.
As I posted up thread, it would be so nice if we did not have to speak in black and white so much and focus on what we are doing TOGETHER, of which there is so much in Birmingham. Even more important though, would be that when a thread is relevant to 'black or white' , people from the outside don't feel the need to come here and try to analyze and dissect us as if we aren't as capable of building a city as someone else.
We are excited as we are in a time of growth and gentrification. We can and do look to sister cities in the south and elsewhere for inspiration. And yes, we even look to Atlanta. But we also see many mistakes that we don't want to make. Unfortunately the decades of Atlanta's boom were not some of the kindest in terms of urban renewal. We have a chance to avoid building things like Gwinett County and allowing urban zoning to destroy areas that were once quite beautiful on the northside. Zoning was a big failure in Atlanta, because of the adoption of 'growth at any cost'.
This is a long post and I apologize. I had not intended to post on this thread from the beginning because the title offends me a bit. But I felt that some things should be said . This is a new city the people here are not the people of sixty years ago, and like anywhere, many areas of town hardly have a native. From what I read it is good that many native left, especially the ones who went to Atlanta.
Apples and oranges? You bet, we're sweet and you are bitter.
I think many people on this thread insult black people in Birmingham. They are an intrinsic part of a larger community and they know their own strengths and weaknesses . They don't need other people speaking for them. That was done for far too long.
Happy New Year,
raj
Last edited by raj kapoor; 01-05-2014 at 10:13 AM..
Birmingham and Atlanta are indeed apples and oranges ! it's sort of odd to read the wrangling over such an obvious dichotomy.
You are correct, Atlanta has TONS of black transplants from all over the US and the world for heaven's sake, and to place them on the same cultural level as the black middle class in Birmingham is absolutely crazy. The black middle class in Atlanta has also had a foothold in Atlanta for decades before Birmingham ! That's a huge difference. They are also better educated, better experienced, better traveled, and negotiate the various cultures in Atlanta, including with the 'good ole boys' far far better to positive ends for the region .
Whites in Birmingham ran all the way down Montgomery HWY and GreenSprings to Hoover, Shelby County/Alabaster/Pelham/ Riverchase (one of the first huge havens), and took a hike down US280.
No, Birmingham is no Atlanta - never has been and never will be - much too different kinds of people. People make the city: clear minds, educated minds, fair minds, fast movers.
I had my short fill of Birmingham. I'll stick right here in Broward..not perfect, but at least I can see the ocean, and fly out to most points anywhere with ease.
Slow day Julie? Or the haze blocking your view?
I hope you really don't believe that people are actually that different from place to place. Their numbers may be different but you insult any community to suggest that the only bright, clear, fair minded, fast moving blacks or whites for that matter are in Atlanta. (more bitter)
raj
PS Riverchase wasn't founded until twenty-five years after the civil rights movement.
Yes, I have found that people are very much different - people in Birmingham are very different than the people in Dallas, and different than those I deal with and know in NYC, and those who I know in NYC are very different than the ones I know very well in Montreal. The business associates I know in San Diego are very much different than the ones I know and deal with in Seattle..............and the people I know and have lived with in Atlanta are very much different than the ones I associate with here in Broward and Miami Dade.
That's not, or should not be that odd, or weird. People ARE different from place to place.
Yes, I found that middle class blacks in Birmingham vastly different than the middle class black I know very well in Atlanta. If that offends you, sobeit. That's not a racist position. it's based on experience - MINE.
Yes, some of the brightest blacks I have ever met were in places like Atlanta, DC metro/Virginia, LA, NYC, Miami and Chicago. Yes some of the dullest ones I've met were in Jackson MS, New Orleans, Birmingham and Memphis.
Yes, people truly can be that different from place to place. Again, that's not racist or unfair. it is what the experience is - MINE. it may not be yours, fine with me ! I'm not the arbiter of your own version of truth, and not seeking an agreement whatsoever.
I agree that what you are finding is, "mine".
I suspect that you are finding people are very different in the places you go because you are adjusting your own approach toward them. I say this because I have spent time in some very exotic places in my life and I always come away with the fact that the underlying humanity of people transcends all the acquired differences. People have the same basic wants and needs beginning with hunger and love.
I know many of the places that you mention well and have found the opposite of what you have written.
I am a little sorry that you seem like a person that may miss some nice experiences in life with your prejudice. (pre- judging people by color and/or geography)
But as you imply, we have to live our lives from our own points of view.
I have to get out today and do some things so will not be posting again for a while, but it was nice to have a brief discourse.
There is nothing quite so misleading as "personal experience" when it come to race.
Particularly because the subject itself is so overloaded with centuries of ingrained biases and misconceptions.
Poorly considered. Depictions of reality are formed from nothing more than "personal experience," whether it be an early sailor "discovering" America, or the experience of interaction between cultures, such as related by many, including Mark Twain in "Innocents Abroad." What is much more likely to be misleading is intentional twisting of reality and factual information by those with axes to grind, whether those be K.K.K., liberal, conservative, activist, or simply fruit-loop.
Taking any single personal experience as representative of the whole is foolish. Reading and parsing numbers of those across a broad spectrum to create an aggregate that approximates reality is FAR less misleading than taking the word of any individual group. That concept goes well beyond the borders of Birmingham or the south.
I understand your position but I would respond that everyone has an axe to grind when it comes to race. It is the central organizing feature of American social life and has formed the basis for our most contentious debates since before 1776.
Everyone has an opinion on it which is why ultimately our best strategy is to rely on the scientific method of observation.
This is not to the disparage the sharing of personal experiences (I shared some of my own in this very thread) but simply to remind us all of the incredibly fraught nature of personal reflections on race
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