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I don't think it's possible to address this. It's a lost cause. The government pours money into low income area public schools and the result stays the same. The government can't do the job of the parents.
I think a better investment would be the church, and other things that encourage community, and things that strengthen the family unit.
And homeschooling cover schools. But, someone has to actually do this, I don't think the government can/will/should.
Legally, I don't tax dollars can just flow to churches to prop them up. The money given to them has to be for things not related to religious activites. I see your point though.
From a lot of data it seems that wealthier people are less religious. At least wealthier nations tend to be less religious than poorer one's. These nations are managing to thrive with less social reliant on religious institutions somehow.
I think a lot of good can come from having more community centers though. More things for young people to do.
Transportation: Is a big issue for Atlanta so I would think the same for Birmingham. Owning a car can be expensive so cities need to have a decent transit system so that people can get to work in timely manner.
Even for students this is important. Many a times my parents would work late and I didn't have a way home other than walking a few miles with a cello. That can be a big hurdle in being a part of extracurricular activities.
Criminal justice: Specifically in the context of education in juvenile detention centers: Contracts for for-profit centers should be require better education in youth detention centers. I'd like to see completing a GED as a condition for release or early release be adopted more widely.
Education: Require classes like opening a bank account, budgeting, interviewing for jobs, and other similar things for high school graduation.
Reduce the number of liquor stores and check cashing/quick loans places, and encourage grocery stores through something like tax credits maybe.
Legally, I don't tax dollars can just flow to churches to prop them up. The money given to them has to be for things not related to religious activites. I see your point though.
From a lot of data it seems that wealthier people are less religious. At least wealthier nations tend to be less religious than poorer one's. These nations are managing to thrive with less social reliant on religious institutions somehow.
I think a lot of good can come from having more community centers though. More things for young people to do.
Transportation: Is a big issue for Atlanta so I would think the same for Birmingham. Owning a car can be expensive so cities need to have a decent transit system so that people can get to work in timely manner.
Even for students this is important. Many a times my parents would work late and I didn't have a way home other than walking a few miles with a cello. That can be a big hurdle in being a part of extracurricular activities.
Criminal justice: Specifically in the context of education in juvenile detention centers: Contracts for for-profit centers should be require better education in youth detention centers. I'd like to see completing a GED as a condition for release or early release be adopted more widely.
Education: Require classes like opening a bank account, budgeting, interviewing for jobs, and other similar things for high school graduation.
Reduce the number of liquor stores and check cashing/quick loans places, and encourage grocery stores through something like tax credits maybe.
Agree on most of that. I personally am religious so that's why I suggest that as a possible solution. I'd venture to say that happiness is our goal, whether that involves wealth or not is a separate issue.
Either way I think we're onto the right path here.
I like the idea of sports, recreation and trades. We need people that can help steer young people towards what they are good at, and what interests them, rather than just yelling, "EDUCATION!!!" and no direction behind it. I really, really like the idea of community colleges and vocational trade schools.
Without churches and things like that though, kids are still going to get out on the street and get into trouble. Look at every big breakthrough moment in US history, seems churches were at the forefront. Civil rights movement comes to mind, especially since we're talking Birmingham.
I don't think it's possible to address this. It's a lost cause. The government pours money into low income area public schools and the result stays the same. The government can't do the job of the parents.
I think a better investment would be the church, and other things that encourage community, and things that strengthen the family unit.
And homeschooling cover schools. But, someone has to actually do this, I don't think the government can/will/should.
That's for darn sure. Last time I checked, the District of Columbia had the highest expenditure per student in the country, and the lowest performing schools. Throwing money at the problem is not the solution. At the time, North Dakota spent the least per student and had the best schools. That's anecdotal of course, but certainly is illustrative. It's all on the parents.
And you certainy can't blame those who can afford it to either move out of those districts or go to quality private schools (not those "academies" that were formed just to avoid integration). Remember too that those who choose to go private still pay school taxes, and their absence in the public schools doesn't hurt the schools financially, other than I believe state allocations are based on average daily attendance. But the taxes are still paid. If anything, private schools allow for a higher expenditure per student.
I don't want the government funding churches though. That opens a totally new can of worms. They're lucky they get off tax-free (not sure they should) but they certainly don't need government money. Neither do private schools ... they wouldn't be private anymore.
Homeschooling? It certainly works in some instances, but how many parents are qualified to homeschool in all subjects, and how many have the time nowadays with both parents working? Many swear to its benefits, and I admittedly don't know much about the subject.
Agree on most of that. I personally am religious so that's why I suggest that as a possible solution. I'd venture to say that happiness is our goal, whether that involves wealth or not is a separate issue.
Either way I think we're onto the right path here.
I like the idea of sports, recreation and trades. We need people that can help steer young people towards what they are good at, and what interests them, rather than just yelling, "EDUCATION!!!" and no direction behind it. I really, really like the idea of community colleges and vocational trade schools.
Without churches and things like that though, kids are still going to get out on the street and get into trouble. Look at every big breakthrough moment in US history, seems churches were at the forefront. Civil rights movement comes to mind, especially since we're talking Birmingham.
Once again, I agree with you except possibly in sports. Sure, sports are important, but not to the point that people worship them nowadays. And even college entrance standards are lowered for athletes ... shouldn't be that way.
Another place where we as society have gotten offtrack is the misbelief (is that a word??) that college is for everyone and almost everyone should be admitted. Not true ... we still and always will need plumbers, mechanics, welders, etc. College is for education, and lax admission standards dilutes the reason for colleges' existence.
Location: Atlanta, Birmingham, Charlotte, and Raleigh
2,580 posts, read 2,485,733 times
Reputation: 1614
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mississippi Alabama Line
I think you have to hit on some economic sector BEFORE the public realizes how important it is. Atlanta is the only real comparison because it is a city, in the South, just like Birmingham, with the same challenges, that ended up with rapid growth. What did they do? Seems to me like it was the airport ie logistics. Everything sprung up from that. Maybe it was luck, maybe it wasn't, but it happened. ATL became the logistical center of the South. They did what it took BEFORE it was popular. And maybe, you have to have money so you can create your own luck, and that Coca Cola guy was a big factor in Hartsfield back in the early days. Then Delta exploded. This was all back in the 30s and 40s. Maybe Nashville is a good comparison? I guess country music got them started.
You have to keep it going though. Birmingham benefited from the railroad crossing.
The little stuff...the urban planning...regional cooperation...all of that. That comes after the fact IMO. Got to get the big stuff right first. It's like a sports program - get the coaching hire right, the rest falls into place. Too many cities, that are Birmingham's size, spend so much time squabbling over the little we have, because there isn't much. If there was a lot of 'stuff' to go around, I bet regional cooperation would become much easier.
Looking at some other examples. I guess cities like Austin and Seattle and San Francisco were first on the tech train. They exploded, now everyone else is trying to catch up.
So, to me, the question is, what's the economy of the future? Like I said in another thread, Birmingham is already the financial, logistical and healthcare center of the state. That's great, but if you want major growth, there needs to be another catalyst.
Tourism, recreation, service, drones, manufacturing technology, energy, military, maybe something we've never even thought of. Maybe agriculture will come back? Seems unlikely due to technology. Huntsville is seeing major growth, maybe they know the secret sauce, people from all over up there. I know their growth centers around Redstone, space/aerospace and biotech, but is it that simple? And even still, they are still on a smaller scale.
I look at things like the auto industry that seems to be growing and Alabama, and ask myself, is that sustainable? Perhaps the green or driverless cars, I don't know. How many cars are needed? The Amazon thing was big, but is that really doing that much for MAJOR growth? Most of the money made by Amazon gets put in the pockets of people in Seattle. That's ok for the short term I suppose.
Biotech, tech startups, and high tech manufacturing will have to be where Birmingham should focus its economic initiatives. There was a recent federal grant to create a high tech industrial park in east Birmingham near the Barber Motorsports Park. Those white collar industries would be key to drawing in more newcomers and households within the region. As a result there should be an uptick in growth.
I think it's a sign that the skydive off a cliff level decline that Birmingham had dealt with for about 4 decades is finally over and we can officially pivot from a halting decline frame of mind to an aggressively pursuing growth and progress frame of mind. From my perspective Birmingham now has the blueprint for growth and economic success and needs to ramp up its intensity in pursuing economic development opportunities and jobs. I would like to see Birmingham in particular and the metro area become much more aggressive in branding itself as a modern city with a diversified economy that is continuing to expand and diversify in everything from tourism, recreation, medicine, tech, agriculture, logistics, and manufacturing.The more well rounded we are the better placed we'll be to seize growth opportunities no matter what they are. Cities like Pittsburgh come to mind when considering a similar growth template.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mississippi Alabama Line
I don't think it's possible to address this. It's a lost cause. The government pours money into low income area public schools and the result stays the same. The government can't do the job of the parents.
While I agree with the assertion about government not being able to do the job of parents the idea that government pours money into low income area schools is not at all supported by the tons of data on the topic and is a rather insidious stereotype that would suggest that the public schools are adequately and even overly funded and simply incompetent and thus need less funding or are a lost cause when in fact public schools in our area (Alabama) are currently and historically among the most underfunded and therefore most under performing in the nation. We have consistently been funded well below the national average and are pretty close to being in the bottom 5 of spending per student (by most counts we are between the bottom 6-8 year in and year out and most cases closer to the worst 5) which is obviously a disgrace. More funding from the state level in particular will be helpful in having a better public school system.
We see 5 days a week how crowded the roads are during a work week. It's job here. Should it be a lot more, of course. That's why every major highway in this metro is getting some type of attention or in the future that will that are leading into the city. It's not about work opportunities. The city has to start some type of incentive program to entices people to move into city limits. People are not coming based on the reputation the city has. That's what it all boils down too. I can work and play in the city, but wouldn't dare live in it. The city didn't get in front of the negativity and now is so deep in it that it's hard to change people minds now. Not having any progressive leaders years ago has did this to the city. Build new schools in some of the city prospers neighborhoods, tax breaks when purchasing a home, build subdivisons off 459/20 interchange, grants mill road, lakeshore highway toward 150, etc. The entertainment is here (restuarants, bars, sports, concerts, breweries, festivals, parks, etc.) and people still drive 30 mins to the city to frequent these establishments. That's why the city should have a marketing and promotion department to go to others states and cities to get the "good" word out about the city because getting anybody close around the metro is an uphill battle. Having more fortune 500 companies wouldn't hurt either.
I'm in agreement here, I would love to see the city leadership come up with a program or incentive package to entice people to move to and buy homes in the city limits. Not only will this help the newer subdivisions and the ones coming online (Barbers/Leeds area, Lakeshore hwy, Grants Mill Rd etc.) but this can go a long way in helping the city's older and much larger neighborhoods stabilize and flourish again. This is a good example of pursuing growth and in this case urban renewal more aggressively. I also agree and want to see more promotion locally including in rural Alabama and in neighboring states about the good going on in the area and touting it as a great place to live and raise a family. Outside of the metro I doubt many have a clue about what has changed in the past 5 years and are very much influenced by old stereotypes about Birmingham.
Last edited by cherokee48; 07-04-2018 at 01:01 AM..
I'm in agreement here, I would love to see the city leadership come up with a program or incentive package to entice people to move to and buy homes in the city limits. Not only will this help the newer subdivisions and the ones coming online (Barbers/Leeds area, Lakeshore hwy, Grants Mill Rd etc.) but this can go a long way in helping the city's older and much larger neighborhoods stabilize and flourish again. This is a good example of pursuing growth and in this case urban renewal more aggressively. I also agree and want to see more promotion locally including in rural Alabama and in neighboring states about the good going on in the area and touting it as a great place to live and raise a family. Outside of the metro I doubt many have a clue about what has changed in the past 5 years and are very much influenced by old stereotypes about Birmingham.
And when people visit here for the first time are shock that somewhere in good ole country alabama has a place that looks like a true city. The city cannot just sit back and think people are moving in on their own. Some are, but not at a rapid pace. And this state and metro area is not conditioned for singles or the younger generations. This is a dominated "raised a family here" type state and knowing that people won't moved to the city because of their kids. So the city has to go after the 18-30 crowds aggressively from everywhere or else offer a family a "i can't turn that down" incentive. It's probably would rub a lot of city residents the wrong way, but the city has to do what it's got to do, especially now that it's got it swag back sort of speak.
I hate the school issues, and Birmingham is really bad with the Balkanization of the wealthy suburbs versus the poor core city. I get that people want to be able to move their families to safe communities and have their tax money fund the school their children will attend, but something still seems morally wrong with the disparities in school quality from central city to wealthy suburbs. I know this isn't unique to Birmingham by any stretch of the imagination, and I don't know what the solution is. The cycle of poverty is very hard to break away from; many inner city parents are working multiple jobs and can't be home to ensure their kids are doing their homework, etc. Meanwhile, the poor inner city schools many not provide the academic rigor and expectations needed for students to get a good education. Frustrating.
I hate the school issues, and Birmingham is really bad with the Balkanization of the wealthy suburbs versus the poor core city. I get that people want to be able to move their families to safe communities and have their tax money fund the school their children will attend, but something still seems morally wrong with the disparities in school quality from central city to wealthy suburbs. I know this isn't unique to Birmingham by any stretch of the imagination, and I don't know what the solution is. The cycle of poverty is very hard to break away from; many inner city parents are working multiple jobs and can't be home to ensure their kids are doing their homework, etc. Meanwhile, the poor inner city schools many not provide the academic rigor and expectations needed for students to get a good education. Frustrating.
Agree. And what's crazy is that we have all these great inventors of things and smart people that comes up with different ideas of the world today, but can't solve the education differences in this country.
Location: Atlanta, Birmingham, Charlotte, and Raleigh
2,580 posts, read 2,485,733 times
Reputation: 1614
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcalumni01
And when people visit here for the first time are shock that somewhere in good ole country alabama has a place that looks like a true city. The city cannot just sit back and think people are moving in on their own. Some are, but not at a rapid pace. And this state and metro area is not conditioned for singles or the younger generations. This is a dominated "raised a family here" type state and knowing that people won't moved to the city because of their kids. So the city has to go after the 18-30 crowds aggressively from everywhere or else offer a family a "i can't turn that down" incentive. It's probably would rub a lot of city residents the wrong way, but the city has to do what it's got to do, especially now that it's got it swag back sort of speak.
Unfortunately, many major cities even the successful ones are bad public school districts. However, Birmingham is going to have to balance this issue with the laxation on charter schools within the Birmingham City Schools district. This will attract and retain more 25-40 year old professionals whom may be ready to start a family to stay within in the City. Also another thing that works in Birmingham's favor is its active restaurant scene (its nightlife scene as a result of this) that are getting the attention of the masses nationwide and globally, so it would not be hard to get more positive attention to the City's accolades, amenities, and things to do from the young professional crowd.
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