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Lol.....1.18 million? The only bham gets to those sort of numbers is defining areas that are not realistically part of the birmingham area. How far do you have to draw the circle to get that ridiculous number? I bet practically tuscaloosa lol (likewise greenville doesnt have near a million people either)
In reality the "birmingham area" in a meaningful sense probably has about 450k-475k people.
It goes beyond numbers though. Nashville is a destination city. They have music row and broadway and every women in the entire country knows thats where you go for bachelors parties. Birmingham is not any of those(and thats ok)......
Birmingham has far more in common with cities like Montgomery,Al and Columbus,Ga than freaking Nashville, Austin, etc.....even if birmingham is bigger than those places.
Louisville, New Orleans, Memphis.......these are all much more prominent cities than Birmingham as well(although not nashville). It goes to identity as well.
A good way to find out how a city is viewed is to ask others with no connection to the city what they think of it. I guarantee that random people in another state with no connection to birmingham would place it alongside cities like Montgomery, Jackson, Columbus(ga), Buffalo, grand rapids, etc vs some of those other cities. Well buffalo is a little tricky because they have the bills and everyone knows them for that, but apart from that it's the same vibe.
Note that I'm not bashing our city; I love it. I don't want to be charlotte or nashville. Most people think of birmingham as a "what if" city.....meaning maybe it could have taken more of an atlanta or nashville trajectory had things played out with logistics planning way way way back. But then traffic would suck and it would be worse imo.
But i'm guarantee you nobody in cities like Nashville are wondering how they compare to birmingham lol.
If you were going to put cities into tiers, there would be more than just a one tier difference between birmingham and nashville. (I could see just a 1 tier difference between memphis and birmingham.....btw memphis sucks lol)
450k? 475k? what the hell are you talking about. jefferson county alone is almost 700,000 people.
the reason birmingham is often compared to nashville (or charlotte or raleigh or atlanta or orlando or austin(??)) is because historically, birmingham was as big or bigger than a lot of those places. if you go back to 1950, birmingham was bigger than raleigh, austin, charlotte and orlando... about the same size as nashville.
1950 census data (MSA)
birmingham 556k
nashville 584k
atlanta 998k
raleigh 483k
orlando 83k
austin 161k
charlotte 197k
1990 census data (MSA)
birmingham 956k
nashville 1.09m
atlanta 2.96m
raleigh 962k
orlando 893k
austin 782k
charlotte 1.16m
2020 census data (MSA)
birmingham 1.12m
nashville 2.07m
atlanta 6.09m
raleigh 2.11m
orlando 1.96m
austin 2.28m
charlotte 2.66m
as recently as 1990, birmingham was within about 10% of nashville and the same size as raleigh. 30 years later birmingham has stagnated while nashville and raleigh have both doubled. in 1950, the atlanta metro area was less than twice the size of birmingham. it is now 6x birmingham.
sure, birmingham has been passed by. that's the point. in another 50 years, will it be "why are you comparing birmingham to salt lake city or oklahoma city or greenville sc!?"
450k? 475k? what the hell are you talking about. jefferson county alone is almost 700,000 people.
the reason birmingham is often compared to nashville (or charlotte or raleigh or atlanta or orlando or austin(??)) is because historically, birmingham was as big or bigger than a lot of those places. if you go back to 1950, birmingham was bigger than raleigh, austin, charlotte and orlando... about the same size as nashville.
1950 census data (MSA)
birmingham 556k
nashville 584k
atlanta 998k
raleigh 483k
orlando 83k
austin 161k
charlotte 197k
1990 census data (MSA)
birmingham 956k
nashville 1.09m
atlanta 2.96m
raleigh 962k
orlando 893k
austin 782k
charlotte 1.16m
2020 census data (MSA)
birmingham 1.12m
nashville 2.07m
atlanta 6.09m
raleigh 2.11m
orlando 1.96m
austin 2.28m
charlotte 2.66m
as recently as 1990, birmingham was within about 10% of nashville and the same size as raleigh. 30 years later birmingham has stagnated while nashville and raleigh have both doubled. in 1950, the atlanta metro area was less than twice the size of birmingham. it is now 6x birmingham.
sure, birmingham has been passed by. that's the point. in another 50 years, will it be "why are you comparing birmingham to salt lake city or oklahoma city or greenville sc!?"
Exactly.....do you realize how far out and rural parts of jefferson county are lol? I don't consider every jefferson county resident to be part of the birmingham area, and I'm pretty sure they don't either. I remember one of the first times I drove back into town; I passed the "entering jefferson county" sign and thought oh wow am I almost there already? narrator voice: He was not almost there (lol)
Look, in practical terms you can 'stretch' an area a little farther for a bigger city. Birmingham simply isn't big enough(or enough of a jobs hub) for people who live 45+ mins away to be considered "part of the birmingham area". Just my opinion.
And of course Birmingham was once as big or bigger than many larger cities. but my argument is that *because* it has lost so much population relative to other areas that now it's no longer compared to those places. Things change, and as cities get smaller and bigger they are seen differently with those changes. People think of cities in groups more based on what they are today vs what they were 70 years ago. Orlando and Charlotte and Austin were tiny 50 years ago; but now they are not so they are generally thought of as what they are today in comparisons vs what they were.
It's not just Birmingham proper holding things together. It's really a bit of "twin city" reflected Over the Mountain with the immediate suburbs Hoover inward (Granted, Hoover's not much of a city in a normal sense, but it does have an awful amount of office space). It's akin to Dallas in the sense that the suburbs do hold a notable amount of high paying employment work. The Birmingham Bulls play in Pelham, for example.
280 North Shelby
2,481 Indian Springs
14,982 Chelsea
7,406 Brook Highland
2,903 Eagle Point
5,239 Highland Lakes
9,688 Meadowbrook
1,668 Shoal Creek
44,367 Total
Southern suburbs
20,914 Helena
33,284 Alabaster
24,318 Pelham
12,965 McCalla
16,494 Calera
107,975 Total
Western suburbs
26,019 Bessemer
10,000 Fairfield
5,211 Midfield
16,776 Hueytown
2,086 Lipscomb
2,337 Brighton
9,544 Pleasant Grove
71,973 Total
Northern suburbs
16,044 Gardendale
9,876 Fultondale
6,124 Tarrant
7,215 Pinson
10,409 Forestdale
16,406 Center Point
66,073 Total
Eastern suburbs
26,123 Trussville
12,324 Leeds
10,291 Clay
13,170 Moody
5,982 Grayson Valley
67,890 Total
753,092
That's pretty much the urban area count without including a lot of the smaller cdps/municipalities within these areas, much less the non-cdp unincorporated bits.
Lol.....1.18 million? The only bham gets to those sort of numbers is defining areas that are not realistically part of the birmingham area. How far do you have to draw the circle to get that ridiculous number?"
The same circle they use to draw around other cities to reach their "ridiculous" numbers. Once you reach 1M you leave the under 1M places behind and get compared to a different group. It's the magic number and a dividing line. Probably up to 3M. The 5M and up alphas get their own exclusive club. There's always some up and comer, some tweener, some city that "punches above it's weight" to give people something to talk about and write articles about to stir up discussion, but for the most part the status quo is what it is.
The same circle they use to draw around other cities to reach their "ridiculous" numbers..
But with some cities it isn't so ridiculous because they have a much more prominent density of people within a closely focused area(which sure does typically extend beyond the city limits), and then it becomes much much less dense. So where you draw the line/circle doesn't matter as much.
In the case of Birmingham, continuing to expand the circle out(to areas that really don't even consider themselves part of the birmingham area) makes more of a difference relatively because the concentration of people in the core area really isn't even that high.
It's not just Birmingham proper holding things together. It's really a bit of "twin city" reflected Over the Mountain with the immediate suburbs Hoover inward (Granted, Hoover's not much of a city in a normal sense, but it does have an awful amount of office space). It's akin to Dallas in the sense that the suburbs do hold a notable amount of high paying employment work. The Birmingham Bulls play in Pelham, for example.
280 North Shelby
2,481 Indian Springs
14,982 Chelsea
7,406 Brook Highland
2,903 Eagle Point
5,239 Highland Lakes
9,688 Meadowbrook
1,668 Shoal Creek
44,367 Total
Southern suburbs
20,914 Helena
33,284 Alabaster
24,318 Pelham
12,965 McCalla
16,494 Calera
107,975 Total
Western suburbs
26,019 Bessemer
10,000 Fairfield
5,211 Midfield
16,776 Hueytown
2,086 Lipscomb
2,337 Brighton
9,544 Pleasant Grove
71,973 Total
Northern suburbs
16,044 Gardendale
9,876 Fultondale
6,124 Tarrant
7,215 Pinson
10,409 Forestdale
16,406 Center Point
66,073 Total
Eastern suburbs
26,123 Trussville
12,324 Leeds
10,291 Clay
13,170 Moody
5,982 Grayson Valley
67,890 Total
753,092
That's pretty much the urban area count without including a lot of the smaller cdps/municipalities within these areas, much less the non-cdp unincorporated bits.
I kind of balk at areas like Trussville and Leeds and especially Clay/moody as being "part of the birmingham area"(I just don't think birmingham itself is big enough to get to grab places like that as part of the area), but certainly even taking them out if include the others you get to high 600s....which I think is about the max one could really say is the "birmingham area". I just prefer a little more restrictive definition for birmingham since it's so small and doesn't have that much pull. Honestly places like Helena and Mccalla are a little questionable too.
But It's really this idea that places like far out walker county(lol!) and basically tuscaloosa should be considered "part of the birmingham area" that I find hysterical.
But with some cities it isn't so ridiculous because they have a much more prominent density of people within a closely focused area(which sure does typically extend beyond the city limits), and then it becomes much much less dense. So where you draw the line/circle doesn't matter as much.
In the case of Birmingham, continuing to expand the circle out(to areas that really don't even consider themselves part of the birmingham area) makes more of a difference relatively because the concentration of people in the core area really isn't even that high.
Okay, some cities are built different. This is a sunbelt town and isn't as dense as rust belt. It doesn't matter if you don't consider, for instance, Clanton to be close enough or if they consider themselves a part of the Birmingham area, enough of them drive here to work so that's how it is.
Okay, some cities are built different. This is a sunbelt town and isn't as dense as rust belt. It doesn't matter if you don't consider, for instance, Clanton to be close enough or if they consider themselves a part of the Birmingham area, enough of them drive here to work so that's how it is.
Wait...is clanton seriously considered to be "part of the birmingham area"?
Clanton is closer by a decent bit I believe to Montgomery. I wouldn't neccessarily consider clanton part of the montgomery area either, but it's certainly more a part of the montgomery area in practical terms than the birmingham area.
If clanton is actually considered to be part of the birmingham area(it's 53 freaking miles away!!), then may as well just include some small town in puerto rico as part of the birmingham area too.
@tacosman you asked why Birmingham is being compared to cities like Nashville and Austin.... My theory is partially what steve klein said, for many decades they were similar size-wise. We didn't know now different they were because we didn't have social media and we didn't see them in the news every single day like we do now. Now, it slaps us in the face how much different these cities are and how fast they're growing and gaining in national prominence.
But, I think the bigger reason people in Bham and on this board are obsessed with being in the conversation with these cities are because we've lost so many of our best people to them. People in Bham are sick and tired of seeing the bright lights of Nashville get all the attention and luring away our kids/friends. Atlanta too! It's impossible to retain top talent in companies when we're not rewarding them with more. Had you rather make $300k in Bham or $500k in Nashville/Austin/Dallas/Atlanta? No contest for young aspiring influential people.
We want to be prominent so bad they can't stand it. That's why any time Bham is mentioned in any publication, it's touted as a huge win.. And why people on here refer to parts of town as "districts" because it sounds more big city-ish.. Birmingham doesn't have "districts" but you can call them that if you want, but expect others to roll their eyes when you say it. Kinda like always referring to our airport as "international"... its cute.
Lol.....1.18 million? The only bham gets to those sort of numbers is defining areas that are not realistically part of the birmingham area. How far do you have to draw the circle to get that ridiculous number? I bet practically tuscaloosa lol (likewise greenville doesnt have near a million people either)
In order to make comparisons, we have to use the same method across the board. And in this case, it's Metropolitan Statistical Area population, as defined by the Census Bureau. You can argue for or against their methods, but that's where these numbers come from. They're not dreamt up, they're based on percentages of commuters from neighboring counties. In this case, the "Birmingham area" is made up of 7 counties. And those 7 counties add up to about 1.18 million people.
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