Why are Boston Public Schools so bad? (Needham, Milton: real estate market, condo)

[Guineas]

Given the high degree of gentrification in places like JP and Southie, why are the schools (especially elementary and middle schools) still so bad? Do the people who live in JP have no young school-aged children or do they send them to parochial or private schools?

Here's the MCAS comparison between Curley Elementary in JP and Collicot Elementary in Milton.

[Dm84]

You are correct. Most of the yuppies either don't have school age children or they send them to parochial or private school. A lot of people also move out of Boston proper when their kids reach school age.

[Whatsnext75]

^^ this

[Boston_Burbs]

Private school until they test into boston latin.

Though I am sure it would be a better picture if Boston allowed neighborhood schools.

[scoobydew]

Short opinion: It's very difficult to push for effective school reforms when you are also obstinately pushing policies that hold politically correct educational philosophies and labor practices above the educational needs of the students.

[Urban Peasant]

Short answer to the O.P.'s question, many parents do not send their children to the Boston Public Schools if they can afford not to. This pattern transcends racial and ethnic boundaries. The BPS and the City of Boston moreover still have not fully recovered from the dark days of court ordered busing in 1974. As a result, less investment has in put in to the education of the students themselves thereby leaving the public schools to families who cannot afford better alternatives. This also partly explains the lower test scores. I was a substitute teacher in the BPS at one time and I recall students unable to do homework because they have to work after school to support their families. How do you expect to score well on tests if you don't study and do your homework?

There are exceptions such as the three exam schools including the aforementioned Boston Latin and a few good elementary and K-8 schools such as the Murphy, the Warren Prescott, the Patrick Lyndon, etc but these are few and far in between. Many BPS have shuttered over the years due to declining enrollments. I can name you the Wheatley, the Wilson, the Whittier, the Cleveland, the Lincoln, the Taft, the Rochambeau, Roslindale High, Hyde Park High, Boston Trade, Boston High, and the list goes on. All of these schools no longer exist due to declining enrollments and they will likely never come back because charter schools and pilot schools are increasing in popularity.

[MikePRU]

I see a ton of people who are moving here to Needham from JP once their kids reach school age.

[Guineas]

I figured as much. But it still blows my mind how bad the public schools are in an increasingly expensive real estate market like JP. Home prices in JP aren't much lower than they are in Milton, and if you work in downtown, the commute is about the same. If you have 3 school-aged kids, you would have to be incredibly wealthy to afford JP and three private or Catholic school tuitions. Unless you don't care about where your kids go to school at all, but 84% (Milton) versus 31% (JP) in Math proficiency is nothing to sneeze at, especially if you're already shelling out $400k+ for a 3 bedroom condo.

We strongly considered JP, but the horrendous public schools simply made JP prohibitive.

Will this ever change? It's discouraging to see that BPS enrollment is actually trending down despite rapid gentrification of Boston.

[Whatsnext75]

You'll likely pay quite a bit more than 400k for a 3 bedroom in JP. Welcome to boston.

[Urban Peasant]

Originally Posted by Guineas

Will this ever change? It's discouraging to see that BPS enrollment is actually trending down despite rapid gentrification of Boston.

It will probably never change because more selective charter schools are becoming the popular norm and the political issues the BPS are involved in prohibit change. There are still too many families, both new and longtime residents, that don't trust the BPS. The City has been at odds with the Boston Teacher's Union for years over teachers salaries and working hours and each compromise results in some form of loss on the student's education be it shorter school hours, fewer activities or fewer reprimands for bad teachers. Even if all of this changes in one stroke (which it will not), the City still has to convince the residents that the schools actually offer a quality education. Many residents will hesitate in sending their kids to Roxbury, Dorchester, Mattapan, East Boston, etc because to some extent, these are still perceived to be unsafe neighborhoods for kids, especially kids of fair skin color. If you look at the physical appearance of Milton's public schools and then Boston's public schools, you'll see which ones are the run down ones. How is the City going to convince anyone to send kids to a beat up old schoolhouse built during the New Deal in a supposedly bad part of town? I've known streetwise grownups who would walk down any city street and not feel unsafe but when it comes to sending their kids to the Boston Public Schools, they'd tell me not on your life would they do it!