The conflict over North End outdoor dining (Boston, Hanover: how much, neighborhood)

[Urban Peasant]

https://www.wcvb.com/article/massach...etter/39543101

This presents an interesting case of land use conflict, especially now that restaurant owners are planning to sue the city. The case will matter over the interests of public nuisance, sanitation, proprietor's rights, use of public land, and commerce among other things. The more I read about this conflict, the more I find out how complicated the situation is. If the lawsuit is filed I am curious to hear how the court decides.

Here are a few points I inferred from the article.

- The North End population has changed considerably in recent years and many new residents moved in. I know for sure the North End is no longer predominantly Italian and hardly any families live there now. The days of Christopher Columbus and Julie Billiart High Schools are long gone.

- These new residents probably do not share the same values as long time restaurant and business owners and are the ones complaining about traffic, loss of parking space, rodents, trash, and other problems they blame on the restaurants.

- The restaurant owners feel they are being singled out on account of the unique geographic layout of the North End. Many establishments have been there far longer than the newest residents and opine they have more rights to the neighborhood. Regardless, they feel they should not have to pay for something other restaurant owners get for free elsewhere.

So it's multiple conflicts in one really and is testament to the ever changing city we live in. Now before anyone here in CDF accuses Mayor Wu of one-sided bias, bear in mind that the Mayor of Boston can only go so far as hearing the interests of the people she was elected to represent. If the majority of complainants are part of her constituency, she has to address those complaints in some way. Whether or not this was the right way is up for debate.

[Mayei]

First of all, I have no idea who moves to the North End and then has the gall to complain about noise and parking. It's incredibly dense, close to downtown, and arguably the most touristy neighborhood in the city.

[msRB311]

Where would there even be room for outdoor dining in the north end ? It’s already so crowded and busy. From what I remember the north end restaurants in the summer all kind of open the windows in the front. Is the idea to set up tables on the sidewalks? Seems kind of not worth it. Seems like restaurants without outdoor dining are getting plenty of business. Outdoor dining is nice but doesn’t seem all that feasible to have every restaurant on Hanover st doing it. I have heard a lot of rumblings on this.

[dazzleman]

Originally Posted by Mayei

First of all, I have no idea who moves to the North End and then has the gall to complain about noise and parking. It's incredibly dense, close to downtown, and arguably the most touristy neighborhood in the city.

I can guess what type of people they are. They knew what the neighborhood was when they moved there. People are just amazing.

[dazzleman]

Originally Posted by msRB311

Where would there even be room for outdoor dining in the north end ? It’s already so crowded and busy. From what I remember the north end restaurants in the summer all kind of open the windows in the front. Is the idea to set up tables on the sidewalks? Seems kind of not worth it. Seems like restaurants without outdoor dining are getting plenty of business. Outdoor dining is nice but doesn’t seem all that feasible to have every restaurant on Hanover st doing it. I have heard a lot of rumblings on this.

When I was there in the summer of 2020, they closed off some of the side streets and had dining tables in the street in front of the restaurants. It was nice, but absent pandemic measures, I'm not sure the city would want to continue that.

[msRB311]

Right I’m sure it was very nice but not convenient for many. In a perfect world it would be fun to do it every day but not that realistic. Maybe the restaurants could work with the city on having it happen a few weekends or something. There’s certainly nothing wrong with having more space. I just can’t imagine restaurant businesses are hurting in the north end of all places. They will be fine if the outdoors dining thing doesn’t happen and I’m not sure $7500 is even that much for them.

I’m on the south shore and restaurants have been packed here for a while. Did having to show a covid card in then north end during that time frame cause damage ? I doubt business was hurt. There’s always demand to eat out in the north end.

[Remy11]

Originally Posted by Mayei

First of all, I have no idea who moves to the North End and then has the gall to complain about noise and parking. It's incredibly dense, close to downtown, and arguably the most touristy neighborhood in the city.

Exactly. It’s like moving to the country and complaining that it’s too quiet and there isn’t enough around. Unreal. I would purposely move to the North End because of all the restaurants and amenities being in close proximity. People aren’t happy unless they have something to b*tch about.

[bostongymjunkie]

Originally Posted by Mayei

First of all, I have no idea who moves to the North End and then has the gall to complain about noise and parking. It's incredibly dense, close to downtown, and arguably the most touristy neighborhood in the city.

It began at least 20 years ago when Bova's had to curtail the hours they serve pizza and other food items to placate the new neighbors.

[Urban Peasant]

I am not entirely sure but judging from the fact that "al fresco" is an Italian phrase meaning "in the fresh air", the restaurateurs in the North End probably like the concept of outdoor dining regardless of how much profit it brings them. I heard that outdoor dining has long been popular in Europe. It's kind of like an identity feature I suppose. So yeah, there are definitely many sides to the argument.

[msRB311]

I get that they like the concept but it’s never been a thing really until covid right? Unfortunately this is Boston not Rome or Venice.