Cost of living for an individual (Burlington, Manchester: apartment, rentals, student loans)

[kmanloup]

I know this topic must have been discussed to death already. Someone suggested I look at Burlington, and admittedly, it looks like a nice town. I may disagree with some of the politics, but that is a relatively minor. Now, my biggest question is, what is a good salary for an individual who has no debt to live on in Burlington? I keep hearing nothing but horror stories about cost of living and taxes in Vermont and that is making me rather "iffy" over looking for jobs there. I would just like to see a ballpark range of salaries so I know what kind of job to look for. That is assuming I can since it seems like everyone claims that almost everyone in Vermont are working two jobs at minimum wage and barely making ends meet.

[68vette]

You need to read the yearly VHFA report, "Between A Rock And A Hard Place." It will give the info needed on average rent, income required so only 30% of your income goes towards rent, etc. I'm on my cell and don't have time to put in the link, sorry. It's easy to find, but if you can't find it I'll add it in later.

[kmanloup]

Originally Posted by 68vette

You need to read the yearly VHFA report, "Between A Rock And A Hard Place." It will give the info needed on average rent, income required so only 30% of your income goes towards rent, etc. I'm on my cell and don't have time to put in the link, sorry. It's easy to find, but if you can't find it I'll add it in later.

Thank you, the report was very informative. At the same time, the report was a bit depressing. Maybe Vermont is not for me as it appears a bit out of reach based on the information.

[LisaMc46]

Originally Posted by kmanloup

I know this topic must have been discussed to death already. Someone suggested I look at Burlington, and admittedly, it looks like a nice town. I may disagree with some of the politics, but that is a relatively minor. Now, my biggest question is, what is a good salary for an individual who has no debt to live on in Burlington? I keep hearing nothing but horror stories about cost of living and taxes in Vermont and that is making me rather "iffy" over looking for jobs there. I would just like to see a ballpark range of salaries so I know what kind of job to look for. That is assuming I can since it seems like everyone claims that almost everyone in Vermont are working two jobs at minimum wage and barely making ends meet.

I have a friend who makes about $30,000 and lives in Burlington. He has no debt except for student loans. He rents an apartment with three people and commutes about 45 minutes to work. He eats healthily and enjoys the night life on weekends, but has to watch his pennies.

If you're looking for something less anecdotal, go to the vhfa website and read "Between a Rock and a Hard Place" which gives specific salaries needed to afford rent in various Vermont counties and towns.

[68vette]

I think it depends on what you can make as an income and if you need to live alone or are willing to have room mates. Incomes in Vermont have been stagnant for so long, residents are used to being house or housing poor. Many think that if they are able to pay their bills, they are doing fine. Many if most don't realize 1/3 of your income should be going towards housing and basic utilities. From the VHFA and census information, most people are living paycheck to paycheck.

[MTK1]

You will be struggling in Burlington on 30k. 50K minimium in my opinion is what you would need to make to live comfortably and that salary is near impossible to obtain here for your average person. Crunch the numbers yourself. Look at what rentals cost here.

The rental prices in Burlington are astronomical compared to the wages. Here is a recent report from the VHFA who also published the "Between a Rock and a Hard Place"

The median income among Chittenden County households is approximately $60,000. About 14%
(over 8,000 households) of the county’s households earn less than $20,000 annually and 41%
(about 24,000 households) earn $50,000 or less.

So 65% of Chittenden Countys population makes less than 50k a year.

Despite the recent recession,
the cost of renting housing in
Vermont continues to rise. The
average fair market rent for a
2-bedroom unit is $990 in 2011,
an increase of 58% since 2000.

Also, the future looks bleak. Current forecasts show that by 2030 the population of 65 and older is expected to increase 24.4 percent.

Do you research and it will be self explanatory on why you should not move here.

http://www.vhfa.org/documents/ecos_housing.pdf

[NrthernNewEnglandVillages]

Here is a cost-of-living calculator that will tell you exactly the salary you will need to live in Burlington, Vermont as if moving from a number of location across the U.S. You can also make the same comparisons to Manchester, New Hampshire and Portland, Maine.
Cost-of-Living Calculator | Northern New England Villages

[68vette]

Originally Posted by NrthernNewEnglandVillages

Here is a cost-of-living calculator that will tell you exactly the salary you will need to live in Burlington, Vermont as if moving from a number of location across the U.S. You can also make the same comparisons to Manchester, New Hampshire and Portland, Maine.
Cost-of-Living Calculator | Northern New England Villages

The cost of living calculators are highly inaccurate. There are so many variables that fall outside what the calculators can and do calculate. I think this is why no one ever uses them.

[NrthernNewEnglandVillages]

On the contrary, this particular COLI calculator is published by ACCRA which has been doing it since the 1960s and is the gold standard for such comparisons. The U.S. military, federal statistical agencies, and large private companies use it to adjust salaries for equivalent jobs across the country.

It is true that there are many variables that are left out of the equation, but the same can be said about the consumer price index which supposedly measures overall inflation. While prices are always a moving target this index is still a useful benchmark if you are moving to Vermont "from away."

[68vette]

Originally Posted by NrthernNewEnglandVillages

On the contrary, this particular COLI calculator is published by ACCRA which has been doing it since the 1960s and is the gold standard for such comparisons. The U.S. military, federal statistical agencies, and large private companies use it to adjust salaries for equivalent jobs across the country.

It is true that there are many variables that are left out of the equation, but the same can be said about the consumer price index which supposedly measures overall inflation. While prices are always a moving target this index is still a useful benchmark if you are moving to Vermont "from away."

No offense, but we all know how well the government is at managing money. I will re-word what I meant. If, a person is making say $100,000 in Stamford, Ct, they will need to make about $83,000 in Burlington to have the same lifestyle, etc. This is not going to happen. Even if the income was cut in half to 50,000. They would need to earn 41,000 in Burlington. Much more doable, but those incomes are not at the average for the area. I can see how the calculator could be helpful in this regard, but some or many of the averages are off.
Some of the average prices have not been updated in some time. Some of the variables that will effect the prices are seasonal and have different impact on price. All produce will be very expensive during the winter in Burlington. If the crops are closer to an area people live, they will be cheaper year round. Just the transportation costs alone will spike those prices. We shop between three local grocery stores and while I may not know the averages, they are all fairly competitive and the prices on many of the goods are off. Do you know how they collect the data and how often? When they are saying Burlington, are they referring to the greater Burlington area? If they are, this is misleading because some towns within a 30 Minute commute are considered part of the greater Burlington area, and those towns could effect average prices.
I also looked at the county my in-laws live in Florida. The calculator claims groceries will cost about the same between both places (actually less in Burlington). They used to live in Vermont and what they definitely pay less in Florida. Produce alone is not even close and according to the calculator, Orange juice is .40 more expensive there.
I know I'm being nit picky, but I think people who rely on a calculator alone and do not research for themselves are not doing themselves justice. Vermont is a hard place to do averages because there are fewer stores, businesses, etc. From a research point of view, it makes the data averaging more unreliable. To make myself clear, If 3 stores have a product for $10 within a few minutes of each other and three stores 20 minutes away have the same product for $5, you are not getting an accurate reflection for the area. That is a statistically significant difference.