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Location: New Albany, Indiana (Greater Louisville)
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I've always wondered about the flow not being even btw the USA and Canada. Personally I love Canada. IMO it's everything good about the USA (freedom, strong economy, incredible quality of life, great scenery) without the bad things (arrogant/ aggressive foreign policy, generally ignorant public on world affairs, high rates of crime, income inequality). While more Liberal than the USA they still have a strong outdoors tradition (hunting, fishing, hiking) while having gun control that is reasonable. If I wasn't tied down with family (plus being a homebody) I would seriously consider moving to Canada or at least visiting more.
I wonder if some Canadians retire to warmer beach towns in the SE US? I see a lot of RVs with Ontario tags going down I-75 in the fall. I also wonder what the flows look like for White Canadians vs their newer immigrants?
I've always wondered about the flow not being even btw the USA and Canada. Personally I love Canada. IMO it's everything good about the USA (freedom, strong economy, incredible quality of life, great scenery) without the bad things (arrogant/ aggressive foreign policy, generally ignorant public on world affairs, high rates of crime, income inequality). While more Liberal than the USA they still have a strong outdoors tradition (hunting, fishing, hiking) while having gun control that is reasonable. If I wasn't tied down with family (plus being a homebody) I would seriously consider moving to Canada or at least visiting more.
I wonder if some Canadians retire to warmer beach towns in the SE US? I see a lot of RVs with Ontario tags going down I-75 in the fall. I also wonder what the flows look like for White Canadians vs their newer immigrants?
After a lifetime of work for King and country and after I retire I plan on living the cold winter months out in S.E Asia... Ultra cheap, exotic, amazing food and culture so for me a retirement in the U.S during cold winter months is not a good value proposition.
I do think Canada has done a better job than the U.S with respect to Middle Class Family incomes in the last few decades.. There was a time when the Median family income in the U.S was substantially higher than in Canada.. Canada has been gaining on the U.S for some time in this realm and now they are about even. To me, I think this is more noble than providing an exceptional standard of living for 10 percent of the population.. For that group - sure the U.S has far more opportunities but for Middle class average working class families they are about even and for the more disenfranchised Canada is certainly the better option.
The majority of Middle income individuals don't move from Canada to the U.S and vice versa because there really isn't a compelling reason to.. Poor people in the U.S just don't have the means to move here otherwise we'd be getting a lot more Americans I suppose - but would we want them, probably not. Otherwise, it makes more sense that an economy 10 times the size of our own is going to pull a certain percentage.. but even with that, the amount is still small in the grand scheme of things.. Most Canadians stay in Canada across the board and only a minority leave for whatever reasons they feel they must.
Having said all that, I do somewhat resent the notion that Canada doesn't represent opportunity for go getter or high achievers.. Perhaps the go getters and high achievers who stay in Canada are happy to be closer to family/friends and also to see their country succeed - I'd consider myself in that category. I'm proud to be a Canadian and I want to see my country succeed so I stay here, work hard, pay good taxes and help my company to reach new heights and for me I feel great about that as opposed to leaving my country to support another for personal reasons... Hey i'm a noble and patriotic guy
So yeah - I love Canada and am a Proud Canadian and would put that ahead of making a few more bucks for an American Multinational or other foreign Corporation...
Have you actually lived in the US?
In every way possible, I am financially better off in the US. To live in Vancouver, where I am from I would at least double the income to maintain the same lifetsyle, and that is being generous with numbers and not including having a dream of ever owning a home. A home here in the "expensive" upscale areas of DC is less than half the cost of in Vancouver. But there are tons more jobs, better pay, better opportunities of every kind, better weather. It just blows it out of the water. do I miss old friends and family? Of course. But my personal "quality of life" index puts this area at a much higher level.
When I came to the US I wasn't keen on the idea at all. There is alot of BS out there telling you things that getting "free" healthcare or reduced college tuition rates make up for the difference and that isn't even close to true. The ignorant will buy it - like I did before I lived here. I used to actually believe the stuff that news stations circulate about the US: super dangerous, tiny rich elite controlling a giant underclass, ultra expensive to go to school or the doctor. These things are all massively exagerrated, and usually by those with an agenda. Think about it. What's a better attention grabbing headline than something crazy about the US? That is a guaranteed way to sell paper and attract viewers.
Me? I was pleasentaly surprised with what living in the US has brought me. I am extremely happy here, and wouldn't ever move back Vancouver even though I miss some things. I really like cities like Ottawa and Montreal, but comparing "average" in the US and "average" in Canada, well the US tends to come out on top, and that's okay. Even when "median" incomes are higher or the same in Canada, the cost of living is much higher and it just doesnt add up. I know other professional Canadians, and they feel the same way. If we are comparing the bottom 10% then we have a real debate, but obviously Canadians and other westerners ar every unlikely to ever be in the bottom 10% of Americans. This group mostly consists of uneducated (and I mean 5th grade level) immigrants and young urban black males and poor whites in areas like Mississippi. The fact is that unless you want to live in these areas, they are easy to avoid. Just like when living in Vancouver I never went to Skid Row. Why would I? I think the "our bottom 10% argument is better off" argument is inherently weak and flawed.
As for the bottom 10% Think about this: The poorest people from Latin America, Africa, and Asia overwhelmingly want to go to the US. Why? Because they want opportunity, not a free handout. In the US immigrants from places like India and China are incredibly successful (Asian Americans are the richest "race" of Americans, despite being almost entirely composed of recent immigrants and their offspring"). They are better off than in Canada and certainly Europe. We have to ask ourselves why these people want to come to the US and start from the bottom, rather than going to a place that will give them more government benefits for being poor.
Same for Western Europe. It doesn't make sense anymore to move to the US for financial gains like admittedly it used to be 15+ years ago, it is just a stereotype that is very persistent. Yet many people move there because they still believe the grass is greener. The US is in a strong decay and other countries have surpassed it.
My wife and I relocated to the United States in 2011 from the Netherlands in fact. My initial earning upon arrival were about the same as back home, but the money goes much further. One dollar here can get you remarkably far so our income is worth substantially more than it was in Europe. It is impossible to say we would be living this way if we had stayed in Europe. Our home is perhaps 2-3 times bigger than our old house in the Netherlands, we can afford to eat out 2-3 times a week, we have a large array of climes to choose from, and we are saving more money than would ever be possible back home. At the same time there is a phenomenal range of products and services to choose from. This enables us to afford top quality when we desire so, and at other times we can prefer to be more frugal. To be openly frank, we love it here. Initially We were quite skeptical but after a few months of acclimating it has been a stellar experience for us. When we made our relocation the United States was still in the midst of the economic depression, but things have recovered substantially. Europe is still struggling and the economic future is still looking very bleak. Initially we were skeptical about the transition (particularly my wife) but now we would happy to reside here for the rest of my life. The most important attribute of the United States is the option to move to wildly varying climates and unique niche regions and cities. For example the southern states are varied from New England, Alaska is different from Hawaii, which is remarkably different from Phoenix or California. Of course there are aspects of American culture that I feel "lukewarm" towards but I am able to pick and choose what I wish to have in my life, while in retrospect I find that the Netherlands has very few "options". I hope this helps.
Housing and cars are very similar between U.S. and Canada.
Working conditions are highly variable. The legal minimum for paid holidays in Canada is only two weeks. You can conceivably have better working conditions in the U.S. than in Canada. It all depends and your job and your employer as the laws are a bit different but not significantly so.
And if you're an educated white collar professional Canadian moving to the U.S., you won't need social security anyway...
To clarify, since that statement can be misleading. The FEDERAL minimum for paid holidays is two weeks.
Each province sets additional paid holidays. Ontario seems to be the odd one out with no provision for more than the federal allowance.
My wife and I relocated to the United States in 2011 from the Netherlands in fact. ...
You have a post history of 4, make no Dunglish mistakes, use words like 'stellar', 'frugal', and 'array of climes' that no Dutch person would ever use or even know about. Nice try anyway.
You have a post history of 4, make no Dunglish mistakes, use words like 'stellar', 'frugal', and 'array of climes' that no Dutch person would ever use or even know about. Nice try anyway.
Seems pretty likely considering the massive increase in emigration from the Netherlands. The Dutch are noted among northern Europeans for having such a high rate of people trying to get out. There are more than a few Dutch immigrants around here, that's for sure.
Seems pretty likely considering the massive increase in emigration from the Netherlands. The Dutch are noted among northern Europeans for having such a high rate of people trying to get out. There are more than a few Dutch immigrants around here, that's for sure. ...
Sure are a lot of people leaving for a country of 16 million that relies on immigration.
The Dutch have always traveled around the world in as early as the 16th - 17th century: colonizing, ruling and enriching whole continents with our wisdom. Together with the British, we even layed the foundations of the United States by building this little village called 'New Amsterdam', better known today as New York. The desire to travel abroad is in our genes, most likely also because our country is so small. Even at present times, for many high end jobs it is expected that you studied at least a semester abroad. That doesn't mean all those Dutch abroad hate their country, in fact we are one of the happiest countries on earth. Don't believe everything you read on the internet.
In every way possible, I am financially better off in the US. To live in Vancouver, where I am from I would at least double the income to maintain the same lifetsyle, and that is being generous with numbers and not including having a dream of ever owning a home. A home here in the "expensive" upscale areas of DC is less than half the cost of in Vancouver. But there are tons more jobs, better pay, better opportunities of every kind, better weather. It just blows it out of the water. do I miss old friends and family? Of course. But my personal "quality of life" index puts this area at a much higher level.
When I came to the US I wasn't keen on the idea at all. There is alot of BS out there telling you things that getting "free" healthcare or reduced college tuition rates make up for the difference and that isn't even close to true. The ignorant will buy it - like I did before I lived here. I used to actually believe the stuff that news stations circulate about the US: super dangerous, tiny rich elite controlling a giant underclass, ultra expensive to go to school or the doctor. These things are all massively exagerrated, and usually by those with an agenda. Think about it. What's a better attention grabbing headline than something crazy about the US? That is a guaranteed way to sell paper and attract viewers.
Me? I was pleasentaly surprised with what living in the US has brought me. I am extremely happy here, and wouldn't ever move back Vancouver even though I miss some things. I really like cities like Ottawa and Montreal, but comparing "average" in the US and "average" in Canada, well the US tends to come out on top, and that's okay. Even when "median" incomes are higher or the same in Canada, the cost of living is much higher and it just doesnt add up. I know other professional Canadians, and they feel the same way. If we are comparing the bottom 10% then we have a real debate, but obviously Canadians and other westerners ar every unlikely to ever be in the bottom 10% of Americans. This group mostly consists of uneducated (and I mean 5th grade level) immigrants and young urban black males and poor whites in areas like Mississippi. The fact is that unless you want to live in these areas, they are easy to avoid. Just like when living in Vancouver I never went to Skid Row. Why would I? I think the "our bottom 10% argument is better off" argument is inherently weak and flawed.
As for the bottom 10% Think about this: The poorest people from Latin America, Africa, and Asia overwhelmingly want to go to the US. Why? Because they want opportunity, not a free handout. In the US immigrants from places like India and China are incredibly successful (Asian Americans are the richest "race" of Americans, despite being almost entirely composed of recent immigrants and their offspring"). They are better off than in Canada and certainly Europe. We have to ask ourselves why these people want to come to the US and start from the bottom, rather than going to a place that will give them more government benefits for being poor.
Why would I want to live in the U.S when I make a very good income in Canada with a great paying job and all expenses related to living account for 30 percent of my wages? It wasn't that hard either, I went to College and took a course that was in demand in my country - not a difficult thing to do.. There are plenty of jobs in Canada - It boggles my mind how we are screaming for qualified trades people, Project Managers, Engineers etc yet people complain there are no jobs as they go to University to take Arts and Social Sciences lol..
Anyway, back to practically living a good live in Canada - I know the ins and outs of how to find bargains and deals in terms of food, clothing travel etc right here in my adopted land and quite frankly can afford to be either frugal or splurge on things if I want. I live in a city that is consistently ranked highly not only in Canada but also in the world for overall QOL, it is International, vibrant, fun, gay, big, dense, safe, tranquil with tons to do etc.. My family and friends are here and I travel 3 times a year to places all over the world. I met my partner here and both of us are doing very well.
When you say cost of living it really depends on where you live and what your lifestyle is.. In a comparable city to Toronto in the U.S ie NYC, S.F, Chicago - renting an apartment is a pretty good bargain.. as I said in an earlier post - I pay 1000 dollars a month for rent in a 1 bdrm apartment smack dab in the middle of the DT core of Toronto.. That is very affordable living in the centre of the 4th largest city in N.A. Even day to day food items aren't as expensive as you may think.. I can buy a 2 litre bottle of a Canadian brand of soda that is as good or better than coke for .88 cents.. 4 litres of milk 3.99... a dozen eggs 1.99 etc so even food isn't that expensive here.. Not to mention the plethora of cheap resto's close to where I live DT within walking distance and competing with one another for your dollar. Heck a cheap meal for my partner and I - 4.99 for a Medium Pepperoni Pizza at Pizza Pizza - sure its not a Chicago deep dish but hey - 2.50 for each of us for a complete dinner. I recently compared the price of a 10 inch Samsung Galaxy Tab between Best Buy in Canada and Best Buy in the U.S and believe it or not the prices were exactly the same.. So really - COL doesn't have to be that much of a difference if you are smart, know where to shop etc.. Do you think I buy Tommy Hilfiger clothing - NEVER.. I buy my clothing from a Canadian retailer and the cost is far less than even the Premium Outlet shops littered through the U.S that Canadians seem to love for reasons I have no clue about.
Aside from practicalities - for me, supporting my own country is immensely gratifying.. So no, I couldn't imagine leaving a place that has provided me with so much.. Even the cost of my education has been a bargain and I carried no debt after graduation and have not paid one penny in my life for HC..
Oh, please. You lose all credibility if you say that with a straight face.
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