2008 Cleveland Homicides (how much, estimate, stations)

[BelieveInCleve]

Originally Posted by hillside

i have heard of several police killings in cleveland. cincinnati police kill, they don't get killed. they don't go to jail and they don't lose their jobs either.

For Cleveland: police officers get killed, and they kill people, but a lot of bad things happen towards the police when they kill somebody. You cant really blame then though for shooting, because half the time if they dont shoot first it could mean their death. A lot of the citizens of Cleveland (criminals and good people) have very negative attitudes towards police. First of all the police dont pay attention at all to little things. Second their response time is very slow if they show up at all. Third a lot of people dont respect the police because of all the people they have killed.

So if you take all that into consideration than you have people that just stop reporting crimes because nothing is being done. So with all the unreported crimes and the police never showing up to others you will find that the crime rate is actually quite a bit higher than it already is. Sad situation for the citizens of Cleveland, I hope some day the city will be a nice, respectable place.

[Pgserge27]

Originally Posted by Cle440

Yeah, there has just recently been 2 or 3 murders, so that brings the homicide count around 11 I think. Im not exactly sure, I havent been keeping good track of it.

Being a cop in Cleveland is very very dangerous. I was looking at a list of all the police officers who were killed in Ohio and at least 3/4 of them were from Cleveland (Cincinnati and Columbus werent even close). I remember last year there was at least 4 officers who were killed, and even more people that were killed by the police.

CLE 440 - where did you get 4 officers killed. One officer was killed last year and the last one besides that was 7 years ago. Get your facts straight. I also question the count of 11. I haven't heard of any murders since #7 or 8 so I would guess this makes this 8 or 9.

[hillside]

Originally Posted by Cle440

For Cleveland: police officers get killed, and they kill people, but a lot of bad things happen towards the police when they kill somebody. You cant really blame then though for shooting, because half the time if they dont shoot first it could mean their death. A lot of the citizens of Cleveland (criminals and good people) have very negative attitudes towards police. First of all the police dont pay attention at all to little things. Second their response time is very slow if they show up at all. Third a lot of people dont respect the police because of all the people they have killed.

So if you take all that into consideration than you have people that just stop reporting crimes because nothing is being done. So with all the unreported crimes and the police never showing up to others you will find that the crime rate is actually quite a bit higher than it already is. Sad situation for the citizens of Cleveland, I hope some day the city will be a nice, respectable place.

Definitely hear you on that. Cincinnati is more of a police state. Nobody likes to call the police, either because they fear being labeled a snitch, or they just don't like dealing with CPD for a number of reasons. The citizens do not respond to the police well at all. Every single event is touch and go in Cincinnati because of the possibility of a media parade or a riot. Cincinnati might have the worst community-police relations in America. Not good at all for the city's image. My impression of Cleveland cops was mostly laziness, not so much murderous, so it's interesting to hear.

[green_mariner]

Originally Posted by hillside

Definitely hear you on that. Cincinnati is more of a police state. Nobody likes to call the police, either because they fear being labeled a snitch, or they just don't like dealing with CPD for a number of reasons. The citizens do not respond to the police well at all. Every single event is touch and go in Cincinnati because of the possibility of a media parade or a riot. Cincinnati might have the worst community-police relations in America. Not good at all for the city's image. My impression of Cleveland cops was mostly laziness, not so much murderous, so it's interesting to hear.

Sounds like the Cincinnati PD are trigger-happy and scary.

[BelieveInCleve]

Originally Posted by Pgserge27

CLE 440 - where did you get 4 officers killed. One officer was killed last year and the last one besides that was 7 years ago. Get your facts straight. I also question the count of 11. I haven't heard of any murders since #7 or 8 so I would guess this makes this 8 or 9.

Im pretty sure there was at least 2 cops killed last year, and I thought there was already 1 or 2 killed this year? and the count of 11 was a guess, I remember we had 8 before the recent murders and shootings of the police officer and the guy with a knife on the westside. Ill try and find the link to the page where it shows all the police officers who were killed in Ohio. Also 11 is not that high, last year at this time we had over 25 I think.

[BelieveInCleve]

Originally Posted by hillside

Definitely hear you on that. Cincinnati is more of a police state. Nobody likes to call the police, either because they fear being labeled a snitch, or they just don't like dealing with CPD for a number of reasons. The citizens do not respond to the police well at all. Every single event is touch and go in Cincinnati because of the possibility of a media parade or a riot. Cincinnati might have the worst community-police relations in America. Not good at all for the city's image. My impression of Cleveland cops was mostly laziness, not so much murderous, so it's interesting to hear.

Almost the same situation for Cleveland. People will get mad at the cops anytime when they kill a person. Most of the time the people on the streets think that the person was innocent, thats hardly ever the case. Last year there was a couple people killed and the city was angry at the police. Also the police were trying to get rid of corner-store memorials with the RIP signs, because they said they were all around the city and made the neighborhoods look even worse than they are. I dont think there is anything wrong with the memorials, its the only way the people there have to remember a persons life that was taken for no good reason. Anyways the relationship between most Clevelanders and the police is not good at all right now. Seems like the same situation for Cincinnati or even worse considering you had riots just 7 years ago.

[Pgserge27]

Originally Posted by Cle440

Im pretty sure there was at least 2 cops killed last year, and I thought there was already 1 or 2 killed this year? and the count of 11 was a guess, I remember we had 8 before the recent murders and shootings of the police officer and the guy with a knife on the westside. Ill try and find the link to the page where it shows all the police officers who were killed in Ohio. Also 11 is not that high, last year at this time we had over 25 I think.

No look at the PD article it will tell you exactly how many cops have been killed. This one this year. One last year, A.J. Schroeder, and the last one was six years before that. Also the guy with they knife on the west side is not a murder. This is self defense by the cops not murder, it does not get added to the homicide number.

[WeSoHood]

By the way, I'm pretty sure it's considered homicide... self defense or not.

The killing of one human being by the act or omission of another. The term applies to all such killings, whether criminal (http://www.nolo.com/definition.cfm/term/D82E9E8C-BB95-4F9A-97E134E302E0D7C2 - broken link) or not. Homicide is considered noncriminal (http://www.nolo.com/definition.cfm/term/4DD1466E-C292-457C-9E076F2C885DE564 - broken link) in a number of situations, including deaths as the result of war and putting someone to death by the valid sentence of a court. Killing may also be legally justified or excused, as it is in cases of self-defense (http://www.nolo.com/definition.cfm/term/6BFE3959-D0C4-454E-8DDE08BC4E1B1949 - broken link) or when someone is killed by another person who is attempting to prevent a violent felony (http://www.nolo.com/definition.cfm/term/995A46E4-7FE5-4CEE-8AB42986D38D0F26 - broken link). Criminal homicide occurs when a person purposely, knowingly, recklessly or negligently causes the death of another. Murder and manslaughter are both examples of criminal homicide.

So once again, know what the deal is.

Originally Posted by Pgserge27

No look at the PD article it will tell you exactly how many cops have been killed. This one this year. One last year, A.J. Schroeder, and the last one was six years before that. Also the guy with they knife on the west side is not a murder. This is self defense by the cops not murder, it does not get added to the homicide number.

They messed up on the article. They said 3 in the last 10 years, yet listed 4 people. Not to mention the Cleveland Heights cop killed, which wasn't mentioned at all.

Schroeder is the fourth Cleveland police officer since 1996 to be killed in the line of duty. The previous one was patrolman Wayne Leon in June 2000.

That was a quote from when an article when Schroeder got killed. So the PD article you were referencing was wrong. If you go by the factual quote I gave you and include the 2 in the last year (Cleve / Cleve Hts) it's 6 police killed.. (and I'll post this little thing in case you take my post literal and tell me Cleve Hts won't be counted for Cleveland.. um duh! )

[BelieveInCleve]

I thought the murder count was anybody who was killed in the city. If the cops kill somebody or if somebody kills a cop, or even if someone kills someone else in self defense, I thought it still counted as a murder. So my guess was that the city has around 11 murders so far, but their not keeping the number posted on Cleveland.com though or anywhere else so Im not really sure.

The news sites can also mess up their numbers too because I remember last year in around October or November they said Cleveland already had 147 murders in one report, which would have meant that the city would of had over 160 murders throughout the year. I remember it was really crazy with all the murders but I was pretty sure that we didnt get all the way up to 160+, but I was surprised that the number was only 134, I kept track and counted 141 to the end of the year. Hopefully this year we wont go anywhere near 130, but you can never tell until it gets warmer.

[BelieveInCleve]

There has just been another murder in Cleveland, a 17 year old was killed on East 89th St. I think that brings the number up to around 11 or 12.