Greater Cleveland mass transit

[TheProf]

message deleted.

[ferraris]

So the Waterfront line is "open" again, but exclusively for Browns game time service?

AND they aren't even running it as an extension of the Blue/Green line, so you have to transfer in Tower City?

Am I reading this correctly? What a pitiful re-opening.

So much for our plan to take the rapid to the flats tomorrow.

[TheProf]

Originally Posted by ferraris

So the Waterfront line is "open" again, but exclusively for Browns game time service?

AND they aren't even running it as an extension of the Blue/Green line, so you have to transfer in Tower City?

Am I reading this correctly? What a pitiful re-opening.

So much for our plan to take the rapid to the flats tomorrow.

Yeah, this Browns' Shuttle service is hardly a true reopening for the Waterfront Line. RTA claims it will fully reopen next spring (or summer). I sure hope, this time, they give the line a real chance given the rebirth and expansion of Flats East Bank (and even, some growth at North Coast Harbor and Settlers Landing). This means:

- full through service from both the Blue and Green Lines from Shaker.

- trains every 15 mins throughout the day.

- trains following the start/ending times of the regular Blue Green Lines (ie: services until 12:15a every night).

- BONUS SERVICE: trains to 2a during summer hours (Memorial Day through Labor Day)

trains all night (including the entire system) New Year's Eve to New Year's Day.

Finally: FULL ADVERTISING/PROMOTION of the renewed, reinvigorated WFL service on local TV, NP and internet services.

[ferraris]

Originally Posted by TheProf

Finally: FULL ADVERTISING/PROMOTION of the renewed, reinvigorated WFL service on local TV, NP and internet services.

Hard agree with all of your points, but especially this one.

I can't tell you the number of times I have mentioned taking the rapid to the airport or a downtown event only to get a response along the lines of "Oh yeah, I forgot they have that."

[ferraris]

It was nice to see RTA being heavily utilized for the Winterland tree lighting last weekend. It's too bad RTA doesn't increase frequency of service for events like this. It's not like they can't predict the increase in ridership.

The blue and green lines were packed, every seat filled, standing room only. A friend took the red line from a park and ride and said they had to wait for the next train because it was too busy.

All in all, they did a good job though. Plenty of staff were present in Tower City to help.

Taking the train downtown to meet a friend who took a different train to the same station is not something people associate with Ohio or Cleveland living, so it's pretty neat that it's possible.

[TheProf]

Originally Posted by ferraris

It was nice to see RTA being heavily utilized for the Winterland tree lighting last weekend. It's too bad RTA doesn't increase frequency of service for events like this. It's not like they can't predict the increase in ridership.

The blue and green lines were packed, every seat filled, standing room only. A friend took the red line from a park and ride and said they had to wait for the next train because it was too busy.

All in all, they did a good job though. Plenty of staff were present in Tower City to help.

Taking the train downtown to meet a friend who took a different train to the same station is not something people associate with Ohio or Cleveland living, so it's pretty neat that it's possible.

Wow, really?

Sorry I wasn't in town to experience this. Rapid-ing downtown during post-Thanksgiving weekend for the Public Sq tree lighting, kids lining up for Santa and all the hustle-bustle of holiday shopping was a family tradition growing up -- before there was even a Tower City in my case -- it was simply Terminal Tower shops, Higbee's and nearby May's. I'm glad with Higbee's (then lesser Dillard's) long gone along with the bulk of quality shopping in Tower City, Dan Gilbert's people have managed to keep TC excitement alive. One of the truly special things Cleveland has...

... Yeah, I agree with you: I sure hope RTA gets its act together and provide more service during times like last weekend (and up until Christmas). Your experience clearly shows there are still a ton of people interested in coming downtown -- and using the Rapid to do so. I will also be eyeballing RTA's performance next spring/summer when they claim the Waterfront Line will be back in regular service. Your experience and mine, late summer, clearly shows downtown is bouncing back, but more as a residential/restaurant/entertainment place more so than simply 9-5 workers and shopping (which I wish would increase, but post-COVID, I'm not so sure).

People are also packing the Flats on weekends, and it would be great to get reasonable WFL service back up & running, esp now that RTA's corporate backed free trolleys to the Flats are gone.

[TheProf]

How about this?

https://twitter.com/chrisronayne/sta...451125876?s=20

Chris Ronayne, our County Exec. ... for ONCE I can easily say Cleveland/Greater Cleveland elected a real WINNER in this guy.

[TheProf]

CSU is studying expanding TOD uses to revive the Waterfront Line... It's about time.

https://neo-trans.blog/2024/03/11/ad...terfront-line/

[kpl1228]

Originally Posted by TheProf

CSU is studying expanding TOD uses to revive the Waterfront Line... It's about time.

https://neo-trans.blog/2024/03/11/ad...terfront-line/

They need to run it all the way to Lake County utilizing CSX right-of-way paralleling I-90, with park-and-rides along I-90 exits. (E55th, MLK/Gordon Park, E185th, Babbitt, etc etc etc).
It would be so easy: existing rail grade with little to no building teardown, etc.
Also not sure of the muscle a CSU grad student project would carry toward actual implementation. NeoTrans publishes everything involving anything "urban planning:" to me this just seems like something to to post and talk about 'cause why not.

[TheProf]

Originally Posted by kpl1228

They need to run it all the way to Lake County utilizing CSX right-of-way paralleling I-90, with park-and-rides along I-90 exits. (E55th, MLK/Gordon Park, E185th, Babbitt, etc etc etc).
It would be so easy: existing rail grade with little to no building teardown, etc.
Also not sure of the muscle a CSU grad student project would carry toward actual implementation. NeoTrans publishes everything involving anything "urban planning:" to me this just seems like something to to post and talk about 'cause why not.

I definitely agree with you. There is definitely a growing market for such an extension and, as you note, it could be done relatively inexpensively.

But right now, as the link indicates, RTA and the City really should focus on how to make the existing line more viable. It's a $70M investment, but Cleveland really has allowed it to simply fester with very little TOD adjacent to it to make the WFL successful. However, one major step forward was the 2010-13 built Flats East Bank development that has literally, in itself, revived the totally dead East Bank area with a mixed-use hotel/office complex as well as a large mixed-use apartment complex along a brand new boardwalk.

But 2 problems continue to hamper WFL growth:

1. the unfortunate large surface parking crater between the A-Loft hotel/office tower complex and the FEB boardwalk apartments. This lot, with its sometimes cheap parking (usually between $10-30 depending on the day/event) has encouraged more yet more drivers to the Flats.

2. RTA itself. Since the disastrous administration of RTA GM Joe Calabrese, Waterfront Line service has been limited/curtailed to the point of discouraging ridership, which is CRAZY for a transit agency (supposedly) trying to attract riders. Ever since the amazing FEB development fully went online in 2015, RTA ran Waterfront Line trains every 30 minutes with service ending at 7p every night ... essentially the time when the Flats East Bank's restaurants and entertainment venues come to life. This makes ZERO sense, yet WFL haters point to the understandable lack of riders to show (in their estimation) that the WFL is a failure.

And never mind the undeveloped empty lots at Muny (parking) Lot, the WFL's terminus, and next to the Port Authority, where several proposed office complex developments, including a Cleveland World Trade Center, have never gotten off the ground.

I just find it encouraging, yet sad, that a Cleveland entity (in this case CSU) is finally undertaking a serious TOD study for the WFL ... some 28 years of the line was built.