I'm moving back!

[skeddy]

fire threats have caused insurance premiums to skyrocket, HOA or not.

[Sonic_Spork]

That is one thing I will miss about living here in Chandler, AZ when I get back.

My utilities, car registration, car insurance, and homeowner's insurance are all cheaper here. I was really surprised about the utilities once we moved into my father in law's house...would have expected at least the water to cost more than the $70/month we pay. It was WAY higher at the apartment we lived in before we moved in here, but they were charging us for a constantly leaking landscape irrigation system for lots of grass, and there were incidents like when some idiot managed to half drain the community pool...various water features everywhere. They had a leaking fire hydrant for months that I complained about numerous times. That place drove me nuts. It's just not cool to waste water like that, especially here.

I do utility analytics for a living, so inefficiencies really get on my nerves for that reason, too. It's really nice to live in a house where we have a lot more control over such things.

@Mike - thanks for the clarification on the fire. Weird thing there is that the first news article I saw said that there were six or seven structures that were damaged. Then later I was seeing other articles that said it was only two. The first one referred to the area as "a Banning Lewis Ranch neighborhood in the northeast Springs" and later ones said it was "near Dublin"...I guess it's the same place, same fire, but they were saying some slightly different things. It was odd.

I admit, I didn't research it well to be sure.

[tnff]

Congratulation on moving back to the Springs. My wife and I spent about half our life there before a job move. We had hoped to move back upon retirement, but the home prices have exploded. Got to say the worst thing we dealt with was some of the HOAs. The culture with the HOA can change so fast depending on who gets on the board and how aggressive they are in pushing a personal agenda. If we could move back, we'd probably look further out, probably more toward the northern end of Black Forest like on Hodgen Road. But maybe Cheyenne Mtn area. Stationed there years ago.

[Wittgenstein's Ghost]

Here is a useful landslide susceptibility map that incorporates all of the different sources of landslide analysis -- researchers, satellite observations of prehistoric landslides, etc: https://www.arcgis.com/apps/webappvi...f4f16d0af306d3

I wouldn't buy a house in that zone without knowing what I was getting into. Everyone has different risk appetite on this stuff, but if you aren't up for paying several grand prior to closing to have a geotechnical engineer do a report (and the cost may even be higher), don't consider buying in these zones. Houses do get destroyed and damaged from hillside creep, which is the slowest-moving variety of landslide and the one that we are so lucky to have here.

The worst offenders for landslides (and these are all on the susceptibility map) are Broadmoor Bluffs Dr., Lower Skyway (Zodiac and surrounding streets) and the neighborhood that abuts the Broadmoor's south golf course. All of these areas have had houses condemned and torn down due to landslide damage. In some cases, developers excavated right into the toe of the landslide. Those houses should have never, ever, been built. Unbelievably, there are vacant lots that come up for sale occassionally on Broadmoor Bluffs Drive right next to a "vacant lot" where a house used to stand before a landslide destroyed it. In fact, I just checked, and there is one such lot listed right now. The agent even brags that an acre+ city-owned parcel is right next door, touting that as a benefit without even mentioning that the city owns the lot because they bought out the old owner when the landslide destroyed their house due to the widespread landslide activity in the area. It's insanity.

The mining subsidence issues are a different deal. Again, everyone has their risk tolerances. But I think those issues are mostly overblown. When there is an issue, it makes news. But the number of issues has decreased greatly over the last two decades, and many of the engineers familiar with the issues believe the tunnels susceptible to collapse have already collapsed because the walls of the tunnels were built with coal and timber. In fact, participation in the state's mining insurance program has decreased in recent years simply because issues are exceedingly rare.

However, I'd probably be cautious about buying on a few specific streets (like Country Club Dr., right next to Palmer Park). I would not, however, rule out entire parts of town. I used to live very close to Country Club Drive, and there were never any issues at all. There are something like 4,000 houses in Colorado Springs built over these tunnels, and you can count the number of houses that have actually had damage on one hand...and you may have a few fingers left over.

Do note that even parts of Rockrimmon are in the landslide susceptibility zone, and there have been issues in some areas there. The same goes for portions of OCC and the surrounding area. The overall scope of the problem isn't as bad as it is a little further south, but you still need to keep an eye on the map.

[wilberry]

But won't you miss the two seasons of Phoenix metro ? Summer and Not Summer ?

If I could afford to move back I would be able to afford that Duplex/Patio home in Deer Trail....

[otowi]

Originally Posted by Sonic_Spork

@Mike - thanks for the clarification on the fire. Weird thing there is that the first news article I saw said that there were six or seven structures that were damaged. Then later I was seeing other articles that said it was only two. The first one referred to the area as "a Banning Lewis Ranch neighborhood in the northeast Springs" and later ones said it was "near Dublin"...I guess it's the same place, same fire, but they were saying some slightly different things. It was odd.

I admit, I didn't research it well to be sure.

Dublin and Marksheffel is the entrance to the Banning Lewis Ranch neighborhood. The fire involved two structures, but the structures are duplexes.

[Sonic_Spork]

Originally Posted by otowi

Dublin and Marksheffel is the entrance to the Banning Lewis Ranch neighborhood. The fire involved two structures, but the structures are duplexes.

Ah.

Well, fire is that kind of hazard that can sort of crop up anywhere, so I guess that other than not really wanting to be right smack in or on the verge of the forested foothills, it's always a non-zero % chance.

Though my preference for areas near the "open space" type parkland such as Pulpit Park makes me wonder, we don't tend to hear much about fires there, wonder why...? There is fuel, just not as much maybe? Or would a fire just be caught and wrangled much faster if it were in a park surrounded by development? Not as much acreage of trees and such for it to spread though for sure, if that happened.

@Ghost thanks for that map! Super interesting stuff!

One thing I'm really wary of anyways, are properties with a steep hill right behind the house. That was not really about landslide activity though I suppose that's valid...but I once lived in a house in Virginia with a steep wooded hill just behind the house, and when it rained, the water came down the hill and straight into our basement! I have really wondered how some of these houses with rocky hillsides just behind and a basement manage to avoid flooding... And then, too, I've seen contemporary homes with roofs that are so weirdly designed I cannot imagine how they handle snow load. Lived in a house, different one, again in VA as a kid, where the flat roof on the contemporary design collapsed under the weight of about a foot of snow. It fell on our poor cat, who was unhurt but hid from everyone for a week! Can't say I blame him.

But I've seen roofs where either it was flat, or there was an angle that looked like it would just trap snow and ice rather than letting it go anywhere and I'm just scratching my head about those.

[Wittgenstein's Ghost]

I live right up against Palmer Park, and i think about fire threat pretty regularly. I'm personally very happy that the city closes the park to cars on the fourth of July. I might have a bit of protection because I'm up against the bluffs on the south end, and that probably creates a fire buffer. But still....it's on my radar. However, I have regular State Farm insurance and don't pay anything extra for the location.

Your drainage concern is a good one. Also, don't forget that we have plenty of good ole' fashioned clay soil here, too. That's expansive, and it can create foundation issues. Those issues can typically be fixed with some cash (unlike landslide issues), but beware of brand new drywall or texture throughout the house in an area known for expansive soils (like Skyway).

[wilberry]

I once lived in Black Forest a long time ago back in 86 , it was cold back then....

[Sonic_Spork]

Originally Posted by Wittgenstein's Ghost

I live right up against Palmer Park, and i think about fire threat pretty regularly. I'm personally very happy that the city closes the park to cars on the fourth of July. I might have a bit of protection because I'm up against the bluffs on the south end, and that probably creates a fire buffer. But still....it's on my radar. However, I have regular State Farm insurance and don't pay anything extra for the location.

Your drainage concern is a good one. Also, don't forget that we have plenty of good ole' fashioned clay soil here, too. That's expansive, and it can create foundation issues. Those issues can typically be fixed with some cash (unlike landslide issues), but beware of brand new drywall or texture throughout the house in an area known for expansive soils (like Skyway).

Yeah I am NOT looking in Skyway. The couple who are my closest friends had a house there for a while and the sun room was pretty much coming off the house and they had door frame problems and cracks everywhere, a huge crack in the living room wall... It was on a slab, but like the whole house was shifting and coming apart it seemed! Sheesh.

The house we are going to be selling here in Chandler, AZ is also on a concrete slab, no crawlspace or basement or anything, which is super common here (I guess there is nearly impenetrable bedrock some 5 feet down that you have to blast to get through, so no one has basements here.) When we had the flooring replaced, they stripped off the old carpet and pads and the concrete had shifted and cracked, so they just ground it down to level and patched it before putting the new floor down. It had not affected the walls or structure otherwise. They guy just shrugged and said it's no big deal and happens to most homes in the Phoenix area. Whatever, I don't know. I just wanna get outta here anyways.

The thing with noticing the surrounding terrain and worrying about drainage, and the shape of some roofs and worrying about snow and ice dams... I'm just like, you know, those houses aren't new! They've been there for at least what, 40 years? I feel like if those things were problems, wouldn't somebody have had to solve them by now? But I would want details. Like show me how this issue has been mitigated in a way that I can trust, because...I can see how it definitely could be a huge problem. No one could possibly be like, "oh our roof just caves in every few years but it's fine." Right?? "Oh we just replace the carpet and stuff in the basement after every rainstorm. Fun!"

Anyhow. The ball is rolling on the move! I got a moving truck to come and load up a heap of stuff and got it moved into storage in the Springs about a week ago. Although we have sold and donated and got rid of so much, we still have quite a ridiculous pile of belongings, and I'm still working on getting rid of more. I donated a big load of lightly used medical supplies (walkers, canes, wheelchairs, etc) to a local hospital charity right after I got back down here, which was an awesome experience. The ladies were SO HAPPY. And I got about half of my dining room cleared! I'm starting to feel like my goal of getting us back in July is attainable, though it's been like chiseling away at a mountain.