Move to the Dayton area....? (Cincinnati, Hamilton: high school, income, maintenance)

[ohio_peasant]

Originally Posted by KathrynAragon

... The taxes and utilities and MAINTENANCE are just more than I prefer.

Maintenance will be higher in a colder and more humid climate. Be prepared for higher heating-costs too. Property taxes in Ohio are reasonable by coastal standards (nothing like New Jersey or NY), but depending on the locality, they can easily run at 2% of the market value (not the assessed value!) of the house. So a $150K house in Beavercreek may have a $3000/year property tax bill. In the tonier towns, such as Oakwood (old-money inner-suburb of Dayton), the Beavercreek $150K house would fetch $250K, and would be taxed at maybe $5K-$6K/year.

Then there are the state and local income taxes, which apply to investment-income just as much as to wage-income.

In other words, I struggle to see how relocation from Texas to Ohio would mean a lower burden in taxes or maintenance-costs. Personally I'd be enthused about doing the exact opposite: moving from Ohio, to a drier (southwestern) part of Texas.

[cobolt]

Kathryn,

To piggy back on what ohio_peasant said, here in San Antonio a $250k house is taxed at $5-6k on the low end. May be a bit less outside the city/county limits and different school districts will add or subtract to that $5-6k tax. In Ohio you do have income tax, both state and local (where you live and/or work) which can add up to %5 ish more or less. So I don’t think you’re saving on taxes, since you’d be paying about the same property tax rate plus the income tax we don’t have here. Plus, it does take more maintenance and resources to deal with winters. I think the lower cost you’ll find will be on the house purchase price. Property and rents are just lower up there. Additionally, you will have a property appreciation here that you just won’t find in Ohio. It may not be an immediate concern, but it can be a long range consideration. I think the utility cost per kw hr will probably be lower in the Midwest and perhaps if you can heat with natural gas your winter bills may be lower, but you’ll be using both AC and heat up there so I think you’ll have more heating/cooling months. Yes our summers are hell, but I literally don’t have to run AC or heat from about Nov-May. I have not had to run the heat in the winter for the past 2 years. Remember you will have to purchase all the things you’ll need to deal with winters, and I’m not just talking clothing. You also have to factor in other things like groceries. Main staples may not vary much but I’ve found when I visit my family in the Midwest that they pay way higher prices for produce. We are so close to Mexico here that we get a lot of the transportation price breaks in the overall cost.

I am by no way poo pooing your path. I understand your reasoning because I’ve also weighed this very relocation. I’m just adding some factors to your calculus.

Take care and take your time with this decision. You can always DM me.

Cobolt

[wrightflyer]

Originally Posted by woxyroxme

If you are looking for a newer McMansion development then you will find them in the Beavercreek and Springboro areas, actually there are these types of developments going in to many of the cornfields of Warren County.

If you are looking at living in a town itself it would be different, I live off a heavily traveled street and there is no shortage of loud vehicles going by late into the night, rednecks in mufflerless lifted pickup trucks and dudebros in modded ricers with fartcan exhausts and bass cannons in the trunk. Many people also think it’s alright to throw trash out of their car windows as well.

That is quite a sad state of things. Appears to happen in more and more places now days.

[KathrynAragon]

Originally Posted by ohio_peasant

Maintenance will be higher in a colder and more humid climate. Be prepared for higher heating-costs too. Property taxes in Ohio are reasonable by coastal standards (nothing like New Jersey or NY), but depending on the locality, they can easily run at 2% of the market value (not the assessed value!) of the house. So a $150K house in Beavercreek may have a $3000/year property tax bill. In the tonier towns, such as Oakwood (old-money inner-suburb of Dayton), the Beavercreek $150K house would fetch $250K, and would be taxed at maybe $5K-$6K/year.

Then there are the state and local income taxes, which apply to investment-income just as much as to wage-income.

In other words, I struggle to see how relocation from Texas to Ohio would mean a lower burden in taxes or maintenance-costs. Personally I'd be enthused about doing the exact opposite: moving from Ohio, to a drier (southwestern) part of Texas.

Oh I already live in the humid part of Texas (NE Texas) and am totally uninterested in moving to west Texas - I prefer humidity over dry. I am from Louisiana for goodness sake! LOL

And here's the whole paragraph to accompany the one snippet of what you quoted from me (I've bolded what you quoted):

My home here is about 2600 square feet and has a pool, a hot tub, it's on over half an acre, in a gated community, etc. The taxes and utilities and MAINTENANCE are just more than I prefer. Also, there's really nothing keeping me here after a couple of years. My kids are all grown and scattered, none live here now, and the closest one lives 5 hours away (driving) and he is very interested in moving to the Chicago area anyway.

I realize that it will be a lateral move when it comes to tax rates and some other factors. i can lower my costs HERE by moving to a smaller property (when I say "maintenance" I'm including ongoing costs for lawn care on nearly an acre, as well as hot tub and pool and septic system maintenance). However, I don't have any family here and frankly I feel like living here has run its course.

That being said, I am probably going to put off an out of state move for four years or so, because I'd rather my kids move to an area FIRST and get settled. So I am looking at homes locally with my realtor this upcoming week. They are all smaller homes with smaller "footprints" and thus, smaller costs and less maintenance.

The long term plan though is to move to the Ohio area and probably the Dayton area of Ohio. We'll see.

[KathrynAragon]

I wanted to update this thread.

I found a good deal (comparatively speaking) on a smaller house in the Tyler TX metro area. I bought it below appraised value which is good. The taxes will be around $5000 (vs $8000) a year. The electric bill is halved, because not only is it smaller, but it also doesn't have a pool and hot tub and all that running constantly. My last electric bill was literally half of what I'd been paying - I can't imagine it going up to what it was at my former home during the summer, with the pool filter running so often and more square footage to cool during a hot summer. Got the gas bill and trash/water bill already and they are also significantly lower than this time last year in my former home.

I'm not sure some people realize just how how property taxes are here in Texas. It's a great place to make a lot of money when you're younger and working but it's trickier when one retires.

Anyway, I still love Xenia and it's still in the playoffs but like I said earlier, I am going to wait to see where my daughter and her husband and kids settle. They LOVE Xenia and at the end of the day, regardless of where they settle that's probably where I'ml going to settle. So he'll go where the job is, I'm sure.

Personally I'm rooting for the Tidewater region of Virginia but we'll just have to wait and see on that one. Meanwhile, since I bought a house here, I'm planning to live here for at least another four years. With yearly visits to friends and family in Ohio!

[notnamed]

All relative of course. But I was shocked when I moved from Huber Heights to Vancouver, WA that property taxes were lower here on a house that costs 3x as much as our Huber home. Coupled with the no state/local income taxes in WA meant that the tax difference alone covered the increased cost of living. Then throw in the appreciation(current house value went up $100k in 2 years) and it's like we were being paid to live here compared to Dayton.

We are coming back to Ohio to be closer to family as they get older(and are too stubborn to relocate themselves). But it came down to Cincinnati or Columbus burbs as when we lived in Dayton we spent many weekends driving to Columbus or Cincy for food/culture/nightlife and wanted to be closer to that in rejuvenating cities. Cincinnati likely winning out as I have a substantial career network there.

[KathrynAragon]

I like the idea of living closer to Cincinnati too.

[ohio_peasant]

Originally Posted by KathrynAragon

I'm not sure some people realize just how how property taxes are here in Texas. It's a great place to make a lot of money when you're younger and working but it's trickier when one retires.

Texas property taxes are high, compared to the rest of the South. But the lack of income tax is a substantial consideration. For people who have dividend or capital gains income from their taxable portfolio, this is important, whether they are still working or retired. For such a case, the total tax-burden might be higher say in Alabama (famous for its low property taxes) than in Texas.

Originally Posted by KathrynAragon

Personally I'm rooting for the Tidewater region of Virginia ...

Actually, the Tidewater region of Virginia much resembles Beavercreek and parts of Xenia, other than of course the proximity to water.

[notnamed]

It is astounding how high Ohio's taxes are. In WA there is no income tax as well. And the property tax on our $500k house was $3000 lower than on the $300k house we are building in the cincy area. Which results in the end mortgage payments being similar. At least we'll be outside city limits where there isn't a local income tax as well.

[wrightflyer]

Originally Posted by notnamed

It is astounding how high Ohio's taxes are. In WA there is no income tax as well. And the property tax on our $500k house was $3000 lower than on the $300k house we are building in the cincy area. Which results in the end mortgage payments being similar. At least we'll be outside city limits where there isn't a local income tax as well.

I think Washington makes most of that difference in revenue up in sales tax, am I correct? Some of the Seattle suburbs have sales tax rates of near or over 10%. While Hamilton County is high (IMO) at 7.80%, most surrounding counties are 7% or less.

In Kentucky, property taxes are nearly half (at least in comparison to my condo) and our sales tax is capped state-wide at 6%. But we make it up in a slightly higher state income tax rate.

Regardless, it really depends on where you are coming from in Washington and comparing it to where you are now outside Cincinnati. Moving from Bellevue to Mariemont you will see a huge swing in property taxes from relocating to a bedroom, non-commercial community alone. Mariemont just being an example.

Since you stated you will be in an unincorporated township, the lack of a local income tax tends to drive property taxes higher. Even though there may not be as many services, it seems property taxes are always a bit higher in townships versus a city (unless that city is older urban or inner-ring areas, such as Cincinnati or Mariemont).