More backlash at regional transit (Detroit, Ann Arbor: rental car, appointed, mover)

[usroute10]

Originally Posted by DTWflyer

There are several issues:
1) They always do a terrible job of "selling" the RTA; never give clear plans, clear costs, clear timing. Everyone is highly skeptical of another government bureaucracy sitting on top of other transit agencies that to this day fail to deliver at basic service levels.

1) I agree. SMART and DDOT should be merged into one system, the RTA, eliminating needless bureaucracies. Not 3 bureaucracies, just one.

Originally Posted by DTWflyer

There are several issues:
2) They don't even try to address any of the transit issues in some of these outer lying areas; just assume they will pay and get no ROI

2) I have asked this question on another Detroit forum and I have never been given an answer. So I will ask you. What are the "transit issues" in the outer lying areas? What ROI do these communities want? What service would they buy into, or is this their desire just to not have any service and not pay anything into better regional transit?

Originally Posted by DTWflyer

3) There is millage and tax fatigue; as said above there have been so many other local level millages for police, fire, schools, local roads, etc. that people are tired of constantly voting in replacement or new taxes.

3)Well...do you want services, infrastructure, and quality of life or not?

************************
-I did an analysis of funding of public transit in the US, and I determined that the Detroit area is the only metro area of the 30 LARGEST METROS that relies on PROPERTY TAXES to fund transit. (San Fran/Oakland and Seattle both have small property taxes that go to transit, but those taxes are very minor sources of local transit funding, local sales tax being the biggest source of transit funding).

-I also determined that of the metro areas that provide some sort of rapid transit, only ONE metro area in the country RELIES on property taxes for local funding - Indianapolis, which 6 months ago started a BRT Line.

-Detroit needs to consolidate into one authority and then we need to get the legislature to pass an amendment allowing the authority to take local sales tax increases to the vote of the people. In California, at least 62% of the people have to vote in favor in order to get a transit tax passed.

-Local sales tax will allow us to pass off transit funding to visiting businessmen, tourists, truck drivers passing through, and Canadian workers/shoppers from Windsor/Essex. Renters, property owners, and visitors all share in the funding.

[TheProf]

This is so disappointing and deflating to me... I love Detroit and its people, and the City has so much going for it and is doing so many good things to bring it back, but it continues to miss the boat on mass transit, which would be the linchpin in pulling everything together and allowing the City to really take off...

... I try and stay hopeful that attitudes will change and shovels will be going into the ground building that mythical rapid transit/subway line... But mythical is the operative word... Judging by officials attitudes, which are reflected on the Detroit C-D board, it's as if Detroiters exist on another planet when it comes to mass transit, and that ain't good...

[Arthur Digby Sellers]

I'm not buying or selling mass transit, but people who aren't going to use it don't want to pay a tax for it. That's pretty much the long and the short of it.

[y2c313]

I'm sure we pay taxes towards a lot of things we won't personally use. Folks don't realize how bad the transit system here is til they're forced to use it. Other areas realize that having a proper transit system is good for the region, even if they will never use it themselves.

[TheProf]

Originally Posted by Arthur Digby Sellers

I'm not buying or selling mass transit, but people who aren't going to use it don't want to pay a tax for it. That's pretty much the long and the short of it.

Exhibit A.

[Arthur Digby Sellers]

Originally Posted by TheProf

Exhibit A.

Exhibit A of what? I told you I'm not buying or selling, just trying to explain the thinking of someone out in the outer burbs and why they would reject a mass transit proposal. Are you actually interested in persuading these people or do you just want to call them stupid so you can feel superior?

[Arthur Digby Sellers]

Originally Posted by y2c313

I'm sure we pay taxes towards a lot of things we won't personally use. Folks don't realize how bad the transit system here is til they're forced to use it. Other areas realize that having a proper transit system is good for the region, even if they will never use it themselves.

True, but this would be a new tax and not an inconsequential one at that. It's a tough sell.

[Coldjensens]

They did not reject it, they said they wanted a rational and thoughtful approach to it. Not just "lets throw a bunch of money at it and see what we get" I think we need a regional transit system but I have no problems with a rational approach in lieu of normal half-hazard decision making.

[usroute10]

Originally Posted by Arthur Digby Sellers

OK, bye!

Just the other day, I was doing some research on a small amusement Park in Portland on the Portland City-Data forum page, and I saw that you started a thread in that forum asking for recommendations for things to do/see. If you visit that city, I hope that you notice it is a place...

...where the city and suburbs don't hate each other
...where they work together
...where they invested in building streetcar and light rail lines in the 1990's that have contributed to the quality of life of the region, enhanced the vibrancy and directed investment into the city's core (making its downtown and adjacent Pearl District one of the nation's most unique and bustling centers), and has facilitated the curbing of suburban sprawl (along with their urban growth boundary).

[usroute10]

Originally Posted by Coldjensens

They did not reject it, they said they wanted a rational and thoughtful approach to it. Not just "lets throw a bunch of money at it and see what we get" I think we need a regional transit system but I have no problems with a rational approach in lieu of normal half-hazard decision making.

Sir, these folks want their individual communities to be able to opt-out of the regional transit authority. It is not about funding management and efficiency, it is about not funding it at all. What Mr. Digby Sellers said.