"Eat less/exercise more" v. IF/autophagy (patients, doctor, weight loss)
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It's really not controversial that dieters lose weight primarily because they are expending more calories than they are taking in. And a little online research reveals that the 2% success rate so often cited was based on a study of only 100 people -- not a large enough sample to make the statistic a valid one. However, it still may be accurate to suggest that the majority of dieters fail long term, regaining the weight they lost, plus some. But without statistical proof, it's only an impression and not necessarily a fact. There may be other studies. I don't know.
Intermittent fasting results in weight loss because dieters take in fewer calories, just like the "eat less/exercise more" model. But what is missing in the old model is autophagy. Citing the validity of the old model doesn't resolve the conflict, it just omits the value of what autophagy has to offer. I think that's a significant point to make.
In other words, if you're arguing that calorie restriction (CR) works just fine, thank you, you're right. But in and of itself it's missing a valuable tool.
I started IF based on a British study of just three patients, the purpose of which was to note the effects of it on Type II diabetes.
The three got off insulin in short order.
I have not, even though I'm well past the 18 days the longest in the study took to get off of it.
Insulin and Victoza are the only T2D medications I take. I don't take metformin or any other pills. Pills don't handle spikes well.
There are also genetics at work here ... all of my siblings are also T2D, so heredity must be a contributing factor.
I started IF based on a British study of just three patients, the purpose of which was to note the effects of it on Type II diabetes.
The three got off insulin in short order.
I have not, even though I'm well past the 18 days the longest in the study took to get off of it.
Insulin and Victoza are the only T2D medications I take. I don't take metformin or any other pills. Pills don't handle spikes well.
There are also genetics at work here ... all of my siblings are also T2D, so heredity must be a contributing factor.
How long have you been doing IF? I hope it gets better for you. Do you feel better? I've only been doing it a little shy of three months and started OMAD two weeks in. My face, abs, legs and ankles are much tighter. Especially you can see it in my face, nice tight skin. I'm not complaining. It's a noticeable difference.
Last edited by KaraZetterberg153; 12-11-2018 at 07:12 AM..
I think what we all fail to acknowledge as part of any theory is that our species isn't really designed for the world we currently live in. Our bodies evolved based on the model where we would eat when the harvest and/or hunt was bountiful and rely on stores of non-perishable food supplies and stored energy (fat) otherwise.
No dairy, no perishable goods and for damn certain, no processed foods. We also didn't graze throughout the day like we do in a civilized society.
IF really just mimics the old way of sustaining ourselves and so biologically everything aligns. But it fails to accommodate the world we live in which is why I advocate so loudly for retraining our attitude towards consumption. In a perfect world people would orient their dietary choices around some version of the Paleo approach and eat only when hungry. However, they'd also be able to participate in meals oriented around business or social gatherings without fear of adversely impacting their nutritional and fitness goals.
And so my reason for challenging the theorists who advocate for methods which fail to adjust to the world we now live in. All the more so when they quote unqualified data sources as a means to substantiate those theories.
Ultimately, I think that whatever works for you, works. I just hope that it's a sustainable approach or one that can eventually be adapted into something long term.
I think what we all fail to acknowledge as part of any theory is that our species isn't really designed for the world we currently live in. Our bodies evolved based on the model where we would eat when the harvest and/or hunt was bountiful and rely on stores of non-perishable food supplies and stored energy (fat) otherwise.
No dairy, no perishable goods and for damn certain, no processed foods. We also didn't graze throughout the day like we do in a civilized society.
IF really just mimics the old way of sustaining ourselves and so biologically everything aligns. But it fails to accommodate the world we live in which is why I advocate so loudly for retraining our attitude towards consumption. In a perfect world people would orient their dietary choices around some version of the Paleo approach and eat only when hungry. However, they'd also be able to participate in meals oriented around business or social gatherings without fear of adversely impacting their nutritional and fitness goals.
And so my reason for challenging the theorists who advocate for methods which fail to adjust to the world we now live in. All the more so when they quote unqualified data sources as a means to substantiate those theories.
Ultimately, I think that whatever works for you, works. I just hope that it's a sustainable approach or one that can eventually be adapted into something long term.
It's interesting that you would say that because there is a video of Dr. Fung saying the same thing you do about how our bodies evolved. If I run into it again I'll post it.
Very simple logic would tell you that eating makes you gain weight, not eating makes you lose weight. That's 1st-grade material.
The main difference between the two is that with the CICO, you never stop eating. In fact, they recommend multiple small meals. That may work if the meals were no/low glycemic but many times they are not. High glycemic foods provoke an insulin response which sabotages weight loss. This plan only looks at calories, nothing else. Then since you are consuming fewer calories while still eating, you're body adjusts and slows metabolism. Then you must exercise to succeed. I am not knocking exercise, it's important but you must do it to actually lose weight with this diet plan.
With IF, the main benefit is NOT eating at all, period. Even if you don't exercise you will still lose weight, if you do, you will lose more weight. Other changes take place in the body which are beneficial when you don't eat.
Many mention sustainability. From the outside looking in so to speak, there will always be naysayers stating that it is not sustainable. Is that not the case with any diet? It will always take some kind of sacrifice. Once you actually do it and stick with it, it becomes easily sustainable. The key here is dedication and willpower. If you lack these two things you will never succeed at any diet, period. Same goes for exercise. It's much easier to be a couch potato than to get up and do something.
How long have you been doing IF? I hope it gets better for you. Do you feel better? I've only been doing it a little shy of three months and started OMAD two weeks in. My face, abs, legs and ankles are much tighter. Especially you can see it in my face, nice tight skin. I'm not complaining. It's a noticeable difference.
This is Week 10, I've lost 17 lbs and amount of insulin I'm taking is way down.
I take two types... Lantus, which is long acting and NovoLog, which is fast acting.
The NovoLog is the one that's way down because I'm not getting blood sugar spikes.
I'm also careful not to let my blood sugar get too low, because then I'll have to eat, which would obviously mess with a fast.
I had someone tell me they can see it in my face, too.
Gonna need some new pants and a belt pretty soon. I'm also starting to fit into some shirts that I haven't been able to wear for awhile.
As for feeling better, I can definitely feel the difference during group exercise.
That's what not carrying around the equivalent of two bowling balls will do for you.
This is Week 10, I've lost 17 lbs and amount of insulin I'm taking is way down.
I take two types... Lantus, which is long acting and NovoLog, which is fast acting.
The NovoLog is the one that's way down because I'm not getting blood sugar spikes.
I'm also careful not to let my blood sugar get too low, because then I'll have to eat, which would obviously mess with a fast.
I had someone tell me they can see it in my face, too.
Gonna need some new pants and a belt pretty soon. I'm also starting to fit into some shirts that I haven't been able to wear for awhile.
And how do you feel? Do you feel better? Looks like we've been doing this for the same amount of time. And your doctor approves, you said?
I don't know if I am just imagining this, but I feel mentally sharper, more together. I have to teach for three hours this afternoon, and I was unable to sleep last night, which is unusual for me. But (entirely different, unrelated issue) I quit taking CBD oil for several days to see what would happen. So I restarted it this morning. Will have to at least rest this morning so I can get through the afternoon.
IF is just an extreme form of CHO restriction. "Autophagy" (from the Greek "self eating") is just a convenient, single word to be used in place of "fat mobilization" and "muscle wasting."
The old wisdom was "take in fewer calories than you burn" in order to lose weight, but that didn't take into account the actual physiology/biochemistry of anabolism/catabolism.
Insulin has several functions: it facilitates the entry of glucose into cells (really a minor function, although essential for renal cells), it inhibits proteolysis, inhibits lipolysis and stimulates lipogenesis. ...So, the trick for weight loss is to eat a low carb diet so that not enough insulin is secreted to save fat but favors burning it, but still make enough insulin to spare muscle from autolysis.
Our bodies are never in perfect balance, but are in dynamic equilibrium, swinging alternately a little above to a little below the sweet spot and back again. It's true our ancestors lived a more or less feast or famine lifestyle, with wider swings around that perfect nutritional equilibrium point.
The failure to maintain weight loss is due to the usual attitude that "a diet" is a temporary endeavor-- once the goal is met, the individual too often returns to the dietary habits that got him to the obese state in the first place.
And how do you feel? Do you feel better? Looks like we've been doing this for the same amount of time. And your doctor approves, you said?
I feel pretty good. I wasn't sure how the whole fasting thing was going to go, but it hasn't been hard at all.
My doctor has "diet" classes, mainly about how to to lose weight when you're diabetic.
When I went years ago, the classes were focused on Keto and Mediterranean diets.
Now, I'm told he has added IF. He probably had people getting stuck on a plateau, like I did.
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I don't know if I am just imagining this, but I feel mentally sharper, more together. I have to teach for three hours this afternoon, and I was unable to sleep last night, which is unusual for me. But (entirely different, unrelated issue) I quit taking CBD oil for several days to see what would happen. So I restarted it this morning. Will have to at least rest this morning so I can get through the afternoon.
My wife takes CBD. I think she's having less pain in her back and knee, but she also lost some weight.
I don't have trouble focusing. I have always had the ability to hyper-focus.
I had an oncologist at a major university hospital swear that I wouldn't be able to focus on strong chemo. He was wrong.
But that stuff does mess with your head. I had the wildest, most vivid dreams on chemo, most of them not good.
Clonazepam got rid of them, it's good stuff. I don't take it often anymore but if I want to sleep like a baby, it's the ticket.
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