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Lots of interesting data to unpack in the latest government reporting.
Sales of hybrid, plug-in hybrid, and battery-electric vehicles (BEV) in the United States rose to 17.7% of new light-duty vehicle sales in third-quarter 2023
the segment accounted for 15.8% of all new light-duty vehicle sales in the United States so far this year, compared with 12.3% in 2022 and 8.5% in 2021.
BEV sales continue to be concentrated in the luxury category, growing to 34% of the total luxury vehicle market in the third quarter but remaining below 2% of the non-luxury vehicle market.
The trend line continues to be impressive overall. The fact that BEVs are a full third of the luxury segment is wild, and would seem to indicate that cost is a big factor keeping the rest of the market out. It will be interesting to see if adoption changes as costs come down like they are right now.
The efficiency is an added benefit that I don’t even normally think about, but you’re absolutely right. Running a dedicated heater (my Model Y has a heat pump) is so much more efficient than idling an ICE. There is very little energy loss when running the BEV heater, whereas there is a tremendous amount of energy loss when idling and ICe. You’re also right that it’s plugged in, so not depleting any of the battery.
This. The best way to heat and ICE is to drive it right away, as idling is really inefficient and it takes long time to generate heat in the cabin. ICE vehicles are optimized to run as 'cold' as possible at idle, which goes directly against the objective to heat it as fast as possible. Heck, even that start/stop feature is made to minimize idling. Thus, remote start on ICE is a ridiculous unneeded 'invention' along with other gimmicks that just increase complexity.
Although heating BEV in the garage is better, overall drop in the charge during cold months doesn't make it efficient, unless the car is plugged in when heated. Best to drive off immediately. Whatever happened to hats, gloves and fleece? If it's freezing outside, it is assumed you are bundled up. Modern cars seem to be great at inventing a problem for every solution.
This. The best way to heat and ICE is to drive it right away, as idling is really inefficient and it takes long time to generate heat in the cabin. ICE vehicles are optimized to run as 'cold' as possible at idle, which goes directly against the objective to heat it as fast as possible. Heck, even that start/stop feature is made to minimize idling. Thus, remote start on ICE is a ridiculous unneeded 'invention' along with other gimmicks that just increase complexity.
Although heating BEV in the garage is better, overall drop in the charge during cold months doesn't make it efficient, unless the car is plugged in when heated. Best to drive off immediately. Whatever happened to hats, gloves and fleece? If it's freezing outside, it is assumed you are bundled up. Modern cars seem to be great at inventing a problem for every solution.
Heating up while is charging is what most people have been referring to and specifically what he was referring to. He was responding to my post that said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by OyCrumbler
Yea, and it can do it while plugged in and drawing from housepower. Since heating is a different subsystem that doesn't require any power from the powertrain, it's incredibly efficient so that makes it quite cheap as well.
In that situation, it's not best to drive off immediately but rather to preheat your vehicle while drawing from the grid because that is then energy you don't have to expend from the charge inside the battery pack. Maintaining a warm temperature in cold weather is a lot less power draw than it is to try to warm a cold soaked vehicle to that warm temperature. This is a great solution on multiple ends and not just in regards to comfort while also likely extending the range of the BEV since it will not need to draw as much power from the traction battery to warm up the vehicle, and in indoor settings like a close garage, a hazardous situation.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_TlXpy-37o
Looks like there are quite a few of used BEVs now too. I wonder how a prospective used BEV buyer decides. Obviously it is not mileage, as the electric motor can last a very long time. Is there an elaborate test for the main battery to estimate remaining amount of 'life' left? In ICE, one can do a piston compression test and other checks, but what exactly would a pre-check of a BEV look like? In some ways, it may be easier as there are fewer parts.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_TlXpy-37o
Looks like there are quite a few of used BEVs now too. I wonder how a prospective used BEV buyer decides. Obviously it is not mileage, as the electric motor can last a very long time. Is there an elaborate test for the main battery to estimate remaining amount of 'life' left? In ICE, one can do a piston compression test and other checks, but what exactly would a pre-check of a BEV look like? In some ways, it may be easier as there are fewer parts.
There are OBDII readers that give battery health readouts down to the individual cells.
Teslas can run a battery health check but it takes a few hours and must be plugged into a level 2 charger. I don’t know if that’s available at dealers or if they’d agree to allow it.
There are OBDII readers that give battery health readouts down to the individual cells
That's nice. Does it work for hybrids and PHEVs? I mean, is it possible to test it just with a good OBDII reader or is it more elaborate and the dealership or other good mech. shop needs to use fancier equipment? Basically, if I have in a used hybrid, can the battery state be tested as a DIY?
The reason I am asking is because even a simple 12V battery is apparently hard to diagnose. All those Autozone reports and such are not a guarantee of anything and the battery can go from good to dead quickly. That's according to someone in the 'biz' I know who mentioned it is quite difficult to really test all aspects of the battery health. Maybe relevant to just lead acid battery, don' t know.
Teslas can run a battery health check but it takes a few hours and must be plugged into a level 2 charger. I don’t know if that’s available at dealers or if they’d agree to allow it.
So if that's true, buying used BEVs is really more transparent, in a sense. Any idea if it's the same for hybrids?
That's nice. Does it work for hybrids and PHEVs? I mean, is it possible to test it just with a good OBDII reader or is it more elaborate and the dealership or other good mech. shop needs to use fancier equipment? Basically, if I have in a used hybrid, can the battery state be tested as a DIY?
The reason I am asking is because even a simple 12V battery is apparently hard to diagnose. All those Autozone reports and such are not a guarantee of anything and the battery can go from good to dead quickly. That's according to someone in the 'biz' I know who mentioned it is quite difficult to really test all aspects of the battery health. Maybe relevant to just lead acid battery, don' t know.
The first one I posted is for hybrids/PHEVs and BEVs, as the headings on the left indicate. They are apps on the phone that connect to a BT OBDII reader (available for about $40 online). And yes, the cars are producing all that date as they constantly monitor all that data for battery health reasons. VASTLY different than the 12V battery (which can still be the Achilles heel of EVs and hybrids as a lot of problems can be traced back to a faulty 12V battery).
The first one I posted is for hybrids/PHEVs and BEVs, as the headings on the left indicate. They are apps on the phone that connect to a BT OBDII reader (available for about $40 online). And yes, the cars are producing all that date as they constantly monitor all that data for battery health reasons. VASTLY different than the 12V battery (which can still be the Achilles heel of EVs and hybrids as a lot of problems can be traced back to a faulty 12V battery).
Im assuming you are showing a phone app for the display? there has to be a gizmo that plugs in somewhere....what is it bluetooth or a cable or what? and if it covers your bolt does it cover ANY GM same year range?
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