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Old 12-28-2023, 02:01 PM
 
2,099 posts, read 1,027,795 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OutdoorLover View Post
and if you want to keep arguing it, the hater will be happy to go back and forth indefinitely.
Yup,

Because in general, those with no skin in a game have all day to waste arguing.
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Old 12-28-2023, 02:57 PM
 
1,878 posts, read 2,246,413 times
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The simple answer is yes, it is still the early days of EVs.

1) Technology is everchanging, adoption is continuing to grow in the US (but at a snail's pace compared to China and Europe)

2) Just about every manufacturer is having bugs and quirks, studies are finding limitations and design flaws (studies would be finding a lot less if we weren't in the early days.

3) Parts such as motors, inverters, controllers, battery packs, etc aren't readily available off the shelf.

4) Recycling and refurbishment has yet to be sufficiently established.

5) Battery technology quickly moving away from lithium.

6) Charging plug/receptacles have yet to be standardized.

7) Fire suppression systems and practices are well behind.

I'm of the belief that EVs won't replace every ICE, but as a user of Worx 20V Shareplug suite of power and lawn tools, the owner of a Fiat 500e, Tesla Model S, a 24 year old VW Golf TDI, and a big ole' Chevy Silverado HD Duramax, I can say that an EV can be a workhorse to most garages. Since getting our Fiat, we drive the turbodiesels a combined 26K fewer miles each year.
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Old 12-28-2023, 05:39 PM
 
Location: New York Area
35,255 posts, read 17,141,934 times
Reputation: 30386
Quote:
Originally Posted by H8PJs View Post
You were forced to have emissions controls on your car so that we can breathe the air. You're forced not to pollute groundwater by dumping your used motor oil. You're forced to have safety equipment that has saved lives. You sound like a 5 year old being told to eat your vegetables.
The people who are into forcing these changes down our throats are what I call authoritarian personalities at best and at worst, rules for thee, not for me. The rich will be able to afford to UBER their way around and make the vehicle selection and maintenance someone else's problem. Not everyone has that luxury.
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Old 12-28-2023, 05:48 PM
 
2,099 posts, read 1,027,795 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbgusa View Post
The people who are into forcing these changes down our throats are what I call authoritarian personalities at best and at worst, rules for thee, not for me. The rich will be able to afford to UBER their way around and make the vehicle selection and maintenance someone else's problem. Not everyone has that luxury.
This is a riot.
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Old 12-28-2023, 07:35 PM
 
Location: Not far from Fairbanks, AK
20,302 posts, read 37,250,490 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dcfas View Post
Our insurance is nearly the same as our older ice car, as well. I was pleasantly surprised.
Auto insurance rates depend on numerous factors: driver's age, sex, driving record (accidents or not), length of time being insurance by the same company, and several other factor, including in which place you reside at, the age of the vehicle, and the market price of the vehicle. The more expensive the vehicle is, the higher the insurance cost.

My wife and I have an umbrella policy that covers our house and property, plus one ATV, one UTV, a 2001 Silverado, 2010 RAV4 V6, 2012 Corolla, and a 2013 Tundra truck. The monthly payment is $205.000 for all the vehicles. By summer each year the portion of the policy that covers our property costs $800.00 per year. Umbrella policies cost more than what you would pay for a lesser insurance, but the portion of the policy for the home covers anything that happens in our property.

By the way the monthly payment for electricity in our home in 1993 was $60.00 during the summer, and $80.00 to $90.00 during the winter. Today we (wife and I pay) $120.00 or so per month during the summer, and under $200.00 this winter because it has been a mild winter. Temperature should be in the minus (-) mid twenties tonight (-24 to -26). At least it's not -30 and colder so far.

Last edited by RayinAK; 12-28-2023 at 07:51 PM..
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Old 12-29-2023, 06:18 AM
 
Location: New York Area
35,255 posts, read 17,141,934 times
Reputation: 30386
Quote:
Originally Posted by rokuremote View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbgusa View Post
The people who are into forcing these changes down our throats are what I call authoritarian personalities at best and at worst, rules for thee, not for me. The rich will be able to afford to UBER their way around and make the vehicle selection and maintenance someone else's problem. Not everyone has that luxury.
This is a riot.
Not sure I follow.
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Old 12-29-2023, 09:38 AM
 
Location: In Little Ping's Maple Dictatorship
335 posts, read 157,243 times
Reputation: 880
Quote:
Originally Posted by H8PJs View Post
I'm not going to sit here and let you tell my the tires on my 3600 lb EV wear faster than the tires on the average 4500lb gas SUV.
According to every source I have looked at, EVs weigh an average of 30% more than their ICE couterpart:

The consequence of that kind of battery would be that EVs – even though they have much fewer parts – are significantly heavier than their ICE counterparts. EV trucks and SUVs weigh 2.5 times more than ICE trucks and SUVs. In terms of sedans, the EVs weigh about 30% more than ICE cars.

Current EVs generally weigh hundreds if not thousands more pounds than comparable internal-combustion vehicles due to heavy battery packs, and that might compromise road safety.

Electric vehicles are under increasing scrutiny from safety experts over the risks they pose in a crash, because of their incredible weight and power.


EVs are far heavier than traditional gas-powered cars due to their large battery packs.

“The weight of these vehicles, and the weight of these battery packs in these vehicles, is quite significant,” said Raul Arbelaez of the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety.

Personal vehicles have never been as heavy as the EVs being sold today. The newest models of electric SUVs and pick-up trucks have raised particular concerns.


In fact despite its increased torque, the all electric Ford Lightning F150 has less towing capacity than the ICE F150.
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Old 12-29-2023, 09:58 AM
 
421 posts, read 122,753 times
Reputation: 686
My Bolt weighs 3600 lbs. if the tires can't handle that then they can't handle being on a gas Rav 4, which there are vastly more of on the roads. I don't see you complaining about Rav 4s, or CRVs or any sport sedan (most of which weigh well over 4000 lbs). Just EVs. Hmm. Hypocrite much?
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Old 12-29-2023, 10:00 AM
 
6,712 posts, read 5,958,516 times
Reputation: 17076
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbgusa View Post
Not sure I follow.
Perhaps Roku is disagreeing with the notion that eventually private individuals won't be allowed to purchase vehicles, but will be forced into ride sharing arrangements for their transportation. And only the rich will be able to afford ridesharing at that time. Is that more or less what you were saying?

I think in fact EV's are a simpler design than traditional internal combustion engines and eventually the economies of scale will bring them down under $20K, maybe even under $10K for the most basic models.

CATL, a huge EV battery manufacturer based in China, is already designing, or perhaps already making, an entire EV platform complete with battery pack, or "EV skateboard platform". Car makers will just take this and plop a chassis, seats etc. on top. CATL is also claiming over 600 miles range for this bad boy.

You can just imagine most of the legacy auto makers falling in line and buying these skateboards, then customizing and branding them. It's like buying, say, a Gigabyte or Intel motherboard and sticking it into a box and calling it a PC. I'm not sure how many of these companies can survive by doing this; seems like they'd just turn into rebranding houses, similar to how the old American consumer electronics companies gave up trying to make their own products a few decades ago.

But if it brings down prices, consumers might benefit.
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Old 12-29-2023, 10:07 AM
 
Location: In Little Ping's Maple Dictatorship
335 posts, read 157,243 times
Reputation: 880
Quote:
Originally Posted by H8PJs View Post
My Bolt weighs 3600 lbs. if the tires can't handle that then they can't handle being on a gas Rav 4, which there are vastly more of on the roads. I don't see you complaining about Rav 4s, or CRVs or any sport sedan (most of which weigh well over 4000 lbs). Just EVs. Hmm. Hypocrite much?
Hypocrite? Really...

I was refuting your assertion that EVs "weigh less" than comparable ICEs. Furthermore, if you think the vastly increased torque of an EV combined with 30% more vehicle weight is going to have a negligible effect on the wear of your tires, then you might want to take a remedial course in high school physics.
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