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The Kandi K23 (MSRP $27,500) and smaller K27 (MSRP $17,500) are not LSV's, they are actual motor vehicles. They are classified like any other car on the road. However, the K27, for all practical purposes, probably isn't suited for interstate highway use unless its rush hour with speed below 50mph. The low cost is due to manufacturing a vehicle designed towards the lower cost "commuter - city" driving without all the premium bells and whistles. They also have about half the range as other EV's usually about 200 miles. The US has placed them in the same class as the Chevy Spark or Fiat 500.
Since most are still just preorders, the $9,000 price some report is after all assumed federal and state EV credits are applied, not the real sticker price.
Note the prior generation did not have US approval for road operations so were limited to non public roadways. The new one now have actual US designated VINs (although I bet half the states still doesn't have it in their system) and are tilted and registered like any other EV.
It was quite confusing and the last I heard of those vehicles was that they were not highway capable in the sense that they were not able to reach highway speeds as they had limiters installed in them, but Kandi marketed them as "highway-legal" which is what lead then to this SEC proceeding: https://www.sec.gov/files/litigation...3/33-11240.pdf
I do not think what Kandi has done is how Chinese highway capable consumer EVs establish themselves in the US. I do very much like the idea of subcompact / mini cars though especially in urban environments. I'd love to see the equivalent of kei vans here for commercial and personal usage.
The Kandi K23 (MSRP $27,500) and smaller K27 (MSRP $17,500) are not LSV's, they are actual motor vehicles. They are classified like any other car on the road. However, the K27, for all practical purposes, probably isn't suited for interstate highway use unless its rush hour with speed below 50mph. The low cost is due to manufacturing a vehicle designed towards the lower cost "commuter - city" driving without all the premium bells and whistles. They also have about half the range as other EV's usually about 200 miles. The US has placed them in the same class as the Chevy Spark or Fiat 500.
Since most are still just preorders, the $9,000 price some report is after all assumed federal and state EV credits are applied, not the real sticker price.
Note the prior generation did not have US approval for road operations so were limited to non public roadways. The new one now have actual US designated VINs (although I bet half the states still doesn't have it in their system) and are tilted and registered like any other EV.
Not in the United States. They couldn't pass crash testing so they were sold as LSVs. Chevy Spark EV and Fiat 500 EV both got around 80-90 miles of range, much less than 200. The Kandi? 59. https://fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=43640
It didn't sell well. Kind of surprising since the closest competitor was the GEM EV golf LSV golf carts. Those aren't cheap. Around 25k for a GEM e4 with the lithium batteries. Then again, look up some of TFL's takes on their K27 and that might be why.
Kandi has introduced a new vehicle that isn't available in the US yet except for testing. (some say you can contact the factory in China to get on the preorder list) It was supposed to be available this spring but I doubt it will make any headways since they focused on meeting federal requirements instead of introducing a vehicle that is practical. I don't think US buyers will accept a low cost vehicle that although it will be as safe as a Smart car, lacks any refinements. It didn't matter that they now have a larger motor and larger batteries, the weight of all the required safety features still kept it under a practical 150 mile range and a practical top speed of only 60 mph. It's essential a "city car" and I can't see anyone buying it for anything but an around the town shorter hop EV. Plus, considering the production cost issues, I bet it will end up in the upper 20k range and not the sub 19K as planned.
If aerial drone views of all the strip mines that are supplying REM's (rare Earth minerals) for all these EV's, could be shown Worldwide, EV sales would slow. The visuals would be horrific.
REM strip mining and refining is causing irreparable environmental harm to our planet.
Strip mining is worse than extracting oil from the Earth. The refining of REM's is harmful, & so are the vapors EV motors throw off.
China has nearly all of the REM's & REM refineries, so this is all empowering a communist regime, & fueling their military expansion.
Our children, & those who come after them, will all hate us for selling out their planet, and their freedom.
Our gov't, & media are NOT showing Americans the big picture from the 30,000 foot level, on all of this, or explaining the unintended consequences.
I said Communist China owns the market for REM's, both in mining and refining, so pushing EV's onto Americans is playing into enemy hands...give Communist China, our #1 adversary, Billions of Dollars to increase their military build-up, & global control.
If you, or anyone else here disagrees, read the last paragraphs of this U.S. Congressman's comments here:
The U.S. House is gravely concerned with our govt's push towards EV's, & how it enriches Communist China's REM industry, while harming our own energy industry...a massive shift in Trilions of U.S. Dolars away from America and towards the Communist Chinese...
This policy places Americans at great risk for our economy, safety, & security...it goes way beyond the environment. Environmentalism is being used as a Trojan Horse...a gambit by the CCP to seize global power.
If anyone here thinks this is about the environment, their naivete could be fatal to themselves, and us all.
The USA needs to halt all EV sales until we are mining and refining enough REMs to supply our own EV marketplace. Rushing EV's that consume CCP REM's, is a mistake that cannot be undone.
I said Communist China owns the market for REM's, both in mining and refining, so pushing EV's onto Americans is playing into enemy hands...give Communist China, our #1 adversary, Billions of Dollars to increase their military build-up, & global control.
If you, or anyone else here disagrees, read the last paragraphs of this U.S. Congressman's comments here:
The U.S. House is gravely concerned with our govt's push towards EV's, & how it enriches Communist China's REM industry, while harming our own energy industry...a massive shift in Trilions of U.S. Dolars away from America and towards the Communist Chinese...
This policy places Americans at great risk for our economy, safety, & security...it goes way beyond the environment. Environmentalism is being used as a Trojan Horse...a gambit by the CCP to seize global power.
If anyone here thinks this is about the environment, their naivete could be fatal to themselves, and us all.
The USA needs to halt all EV sales until we are mining and refining enough REMs to supply our own EV marketplace. Rushing EV's that consume CCP REM's, is a mistake that cannot be undone.
China has most of the rare earth mineral market not because they are the only ones that own the resources or the only one who can refine and process them. They own the market because other countries have not put in much effort thus far to set up the industry for exploring, mining and refining. There's not a particularly special geologic formation that's solely within China or a field of specialized knowledge that only Chinese engineers working as Chinese citizens can understand. This can be remedied and that's currently happening right now and has been an underlying part of the current president's administration over three years ago and then supported with further domestic supply chain support again in 2022 as just two of several measures. It is a game of catch-up, but it's not something that intrinsically has to be sourced from or made in China. It is a bit late in coming though as the rare earth mineral use for internal combustion engine vehicles in both refining of petroleum and for catalytic converters have been around for much, much longer and still take a larger piece of the pie than that used for EVs.
Remember, within consumer EVs, rare earth minerals are used in scant amounts for some types of motors which means some motors do not use any at all. However, a lot of EVs use two types of motors with one of them being one with a permanent magnet which would be rare earth minearl. Meanwhile, all of your internal combustion engine vehicles will use rare earth minerals for refining of that petroleum (so you continue to use more of it with every mile you drive) *and* within the catalytic convertor. If you really want to avoid rare earth mineral usage for your highway-capable vehicle, then the *only* new highway-capable four-wheeled vehicle you can buy right now in the US are fully electric BMWs as they use externally excited synchronous motors. So for now, your options are the BMW i4, BMW i5, BMW iX, and BMW i7. No internal combustion engine vehicles will qualify including any BMW with an internal combustion engine. Tesla has also said they're considering moving back from rare earth minerals in their motors which would mean moving away from permanent synchronous motors, so it's possible in the near future that you might also have Tesla as an option if you want to stick to your convictions. If you're looking at used vehicles, you also have the option of the old Tesla Roadster as well as Model S and Model X prior to the Raven powertrain when they used only AC induction motors.
If this is truly that important of a matter to you, which is laudable, then you should not put a single more mile on your internal combustion engine vehicle, and aside from getting used to walking or biking which can also be good options, you can get a BMW fully electric EV (the PHEV won't do either) or an older Tesla Roadster, Model S, or Model X. I think it's odd given your past posting history that your passion about this issue has allowed you to in good conscience own a vehicle that both has rare earth minerals in it and continuously uses rare earth minerals in order to operate. When did you find this passion of yours? Was it when Tesla first came out with the Roadster, Model S or Model X and you jumped on getting those? Was it in the unfortunate gap between 2019 and 2021 when Tesla started using permanent synchronous motors and BMW had yet to launch the iX? Or was it more recent than that when you did have the BMW EVs available?
Last edited by OyCrumbler; 03-22-2024 at 02:39 PM..
If aerial drone views of all the strip mines that are supplying REM's (rare Earth minerals) for all these EV's, could be shown Worldwide, EV sales would slow. The visuals would be horrific.
REM strip mining and refining is causing irreparable environmental harm to our planet.
China has most of the rare earth mineral market not because they are the only ones that own the resources or the only one who can refine and process them. They own the market because other countries have not put in much effort thus far to set up the industry for exploring, mining and refining. There's not a particularly special geologic formation that's solely within China or a field of specialized knowledge that only Chinese engineers working as Chinese citizens can understand. This can be remedied and that's currently happening right now and has been an underlying part of the current president's administration over three years ago and then supported with further domestic supply chain support again in 2022 as just two of several measures. It is a game of catch-up, but it's not something that intrinsically has to be sourced from or made in China. It is a bit late in coming though as the rare earth mineral use for internal combustion engine vehicles in both refining of petroleum and for catalytic converters have been around for much, much longer and still take a larger piece of the pie than that used for EVs.
Remember, within consumer EVs, rare earth minerals are used in scant amounts for some types of motors which means some motors do not use any at all. However, a lot of EVs use two types of motors with one of them being one with a permanent magnet which would be rare earth minearl. Meanwhile, all of your internal combustion engine vehicles will use rare earth minerals for refining of that petroleum (so you continue to use more of it with every mile you drive) *and* within the catalytic convertor. If you really want to avoid rare earth mineral usage for your highway-capable vehicle, then the *only* new highway-capable four-wheeled vehicle you can buy right now in the US are fully electric BMWs as they use externally excited synchronous motors. So for now, your options are the BMW i4, BMW i5, BMW iX, and BMW i7. No internal combustion engine vehicles will qualify including any BMW with an internal combustion engine. Tesla has also said they're considering moving back from rare earth minerals in their motors which would mean moving away from permanent synchronous motors, so it's possible in the near future that you might also have Tesla as an option if you want to stick to your convictions. If you're looking at used vehicles, you also have the option of the old Tesla Roadster as well as Model S and Model X prior to the Raven powertrain when they used only AC induction motors.
If this is truly that important of a matter to you, which is laudable, then you should not put a single more mile on your internal combustion engine vehicle, and aside from getting used to walking or biking which can also be good options, you can get a BMW fully electric EV (the PHEV won't do either) or an older Tesla Roadster, Model S, or Model X. I think it's odd given your past posting history that your passion about this issue has allowed you to in good conscience own a vehicle that both has rare earth minerals in it and continuously uses rare earth minerals in order to operate. When did you find this passion of yours? Was it when Tesla first came out with the Roadster, Model S or Model X and you jumped on getting those? Was it in the unfortunate gap between 2019 and 2021 when Tesla started using permanent synchronous motors and BMW had yet to launch the iX? Or was it more recent than that when you did have the BMW EVs available?
Catalytic converters in auto exhaust systems normally use platinum, palladium, and rhodium - and mining for those metals in developing nations are associated with human rights abuses. Many anti-EV people are deeply concerned with human rights abuses associated with sourcing metals for batteries, but at the same time, blithely unconcerned with human rights abuses associated with sourcing metals for catalytic converters. Odd - if I didn't know better, I'd say their concern was not sincere.
REM's are in cell phones too, but its not practical for us all to stop using cell phones at this point.
What we can do is minimize our reliance upon China in all things we buy...EV's use lots of REM's, & China refines a controling % of REM's.
Buying Billions of Trilions of dollars worth of anything from Communist China is dangerous.
Allowing the CP to obtain NTS then entry into the WTO were massive mistakes that crushed our middle class, & economy, & paid to build theri military.
Buy as little as possible from the CCP & that includes REM's, electronics, household goods.
At the same time, support our polititicians that will do everything possible for the USA to amp up mining & refinement of all REM's. We have re-opened our REM mine in Nevada, but we still send all our ore to the CCP for refinement then buy it back.
We must refine REM's here in equal or greater volumes as the CCP. This is where it becomes political. We have everything we need to do it, but lack the political will. That could get us all killed, and/or enslaved by communists in the long run.
Read my link...Congressmen are not dumb, and they are privvy to info we are not.
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