Who is able to live on $40,000 a year or less?

[modhatter]

This thread has gotten off topic and is not going anywhere positive. It is very obvious that the country seems very divided on this subject, and is a hot topic these days. I think we need to leave it alone and speak of health care only as it relates to our cost of living.

[mysticaltyger]

Originally Posted by modhatter

Snapshots: Health Care Spending in the United States & Selected OECD Countries - Kaiser Family Foundation

We are currently at 17.4% of GDP, the highest of any developed country in the world.

Yes, no disagreements on that. But it doesn't refute anything I said in my previous post about health care costs as a % of GDP going up in just about every developed country.

Guaranteeing health insurance for everyone does not guarantee the cost will go down. If we want to reduce the cost, we must address the lifestyle issues that have led to the expensive, but largely preventable, chronic diseases (diabetes, heart disease, high blood pressure, & some cancers) that lead to high health care costs.

[mysticaltyger]

Originally Posted by JayBrown80

Prevention is key, there is no denying that...but it makes SENSE that health care should be the largest expenditure that any country has..

Not to me it doesn't. Not when most of the diseases we are treating are largely preventable through lifestyle. Not when we know we have a hugely inefficient health care system. Spending 17.4% of GDP on health care might be worth it if we were all living longer and healthier lives, but that is not the case.

I think health care spending is like a lot of things...You need to spend a certain amount for quality....and then you reach a point where spending additional money is not yielding better results. I think we hit that point more than 20 years ago. What needs to happen is the whole approach to health care needs to be oriented toward wellness. But the health care cartel is highly resistant to that, and the overweight/obese majority in America just goes along unquestioningly with the program set up by by the health care cartel.

Originally Posted by JayBrown80

It doesn't change the fact that if we have 10 trillion dollars to spend on war...then we have enough to provide health care. The amount that the US puts towards the military DWARFS even the most alarmist projections of health care costs..

It's not an either/or. Money is being wasted on both.

Originally Posted by JayBrown80

It's not a question of money..it's a question of morals..

Morals are a two way street. I don't question the immorality of much of what goes on in health care. But that doesn't mean the general public should be absolved of the responsibility for making healthier choices. For the most part, neither side is living up to their moral obligations, but each side is quick to blame the other for all the problems (as with so many things in America).

[modhatter]

mysticaltyger, I don't think anyone would argue with you on the merits of living a more healthy life. No one would argue that obesity can cause health problems down the road. And agreed, we are the fat Americans. I think a lot of us are getting it now, and trying to make life style changes. It is easier for the well to do crowd however. Poorer folks trying to feed a family usually have to resort to a lot of starches to fill them up. And as discussed before, buying fruits and vegetables today can be quite costly.

However, in addition to healthy living there are other factors, such as genetics which hold an even greater responsibility to many diseases. Norway and Sweden are the next most expensive countries in health care next to ours. However, they are not known for living an unfit life style or being overweight as Americans are. There are many different factors that make our health care system more expensive.

1. For Profit Health Care. Paying out an unnecessary 20% + to a middle man (insurance companies) to make a profit for shareholders
2 Poor Diet and lack of exercise
3. Exaggerated compensations for insurance execs.
4. Exaggerated compensations for specialists and procedures.
5. No prescription drug price restraints as all other countries have.
6. People involved in new technology as "an investment" (such as individuals and doctor's owning imaging facilities)
4. Very high administrative costs from dealing with so many different insurance companies, and no centralized records.

The only difference in our thinking is how we go about getting the cost down to an affordable level for everyone. It is my belief, as well as people who have studied health care systems, both here and around the world, that all the above needs to be addressed in order to achieve the results that other countries have - both in cost and outcome. If you are really interested in the Health care systems, there are two very good books I can recommend.

Amazon.com: The Healing of America: A Global Quest for Better, Cheaper, and Fairer Health Care (9781594202346): T. R. Reid: Books

and also. Amazon.com: Deadly Spin: An Insurance Company Insider Speaks Out on How Corporate PR Is Killing Health Care and Deceiving Americans (9781608194049): Wendell Potter: Books