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A jurisdiction is lucky if it gets 50% of the school costs from residential (of any type) taxes.
You're taking an outlier value there. You also cannot ignore that school tax income digest comes from taxes beyond residential taxing.
That is very atypical. That is because APS gets a larger than normal tax digest, due to the large amount of valuable commercial properties found in the city of Atlanta. They also spend more money on their properties from operating in higher-priced areas.
The per pupil cost is significantly less in the counties in the metro area, then you also have to account for the fact that not all dwellings generate students at all times over the course of their existence.
The generational anti-kid/anti-family anti-traditional American values has to stop in our local zoning practices.
You're taking an outlier value there. You also cannot ignore that school tax income digest comes from taxes beyond residential taxing.
That is very atypical. That is because APS gets a larger than normal tax digest, due to the large amount of valuable commercial properties found in the city of Atlanta. They also spend more money on their properties from operating in higher-priced areas.
The per pupil cost is significantly less in the counties in the metro area, then you also have to account for the fact that not all dwellings generate students at all times over the course of their existence.
The generational anti-kid/anti-family anti-traditional American values has to stop in our local zoning practices.
That's why jurisdictions want commercial development. Some do well getting it, others don't.
You're right, Atlanta per pupil costs are high, but those surrounding jurisdictions will still be at the 50% (usually less. Where I live it's about 35%) for school taxes from residential.
For school impact the number that used to be used here was .8 students per residential unit. It may have changed.
You're ascribing intent to development that isn't there. The bottom line is what is more profitable to build, for the developer/builder and the jurisdiction.
You're ascribing intent to development that isn't there. The bottom line is what is more profitable to build, for the developer/builder and the jurisdiction.
This is inaccurate and is entirely missing my original point.
The problem is local politicians are making rezoning harder to achieve. However, sometimes they will make it easier for 55+ communities.
It's political interference in free market principals.
This happened with several 55+ communities in the Snelleville and Loganville area. Developer originally wanted to build one thing, and they wouldn't allow it, but then they allowed a near carbon copy of the same development as a 55+ community.
Then you end up with cheaper 55+ units in an area ans more expensive all age units.
This is inaccurate and is entirely missing my original point.
The problem is local politicians are making rezoning harder to achieve. However, sometimes they will make it easier for 55+ communities.
It's political interference in free market principals.
This happened with several 55+ communities in the Snelleville and Loganville area. Developer originally wanted to build one thing, and they wouldn't allow it, but then they allowed a near carbon copy of the same development as a 55+ community.
Then you end up with cheaper 55+ units in an area ans more expensive all age units.
Is rezoning allowed in midstream between Comprehensive Plan updates, in many places it isn't? Is it possible that where the development was denied wasn't zoned to allow over 55 development while it was allowed where it was approved?
Developers like to **** and moan about how they're not allowed to build a project when all they have to do is submit ones that are allowed in the area and not have a two page list of variances and Special Exceptions they need.
A favorite "change" requested here for single family houses is intruding on the side setbacks and building lot line to lot line. It gets denied and they then appeal to the elected officials (Planning and Zoning are appointed), often using the "taking food out of my children's mouths" argument.
Is rezoning allowed in midstream between Comprehensive Plan updates, in many places it isn't? Is it possible that where the development was denied wasn't zoned to allow over 55 development while it was allowed where it was approved?
Developers like to **** and moan about how they're not allowed to build a project when all they have to do is submit ones that are allowed in the area and not have a two page list of variances and Special Exceptions they need.
A favorite "change" requested here for single family houses is intruding on the side setbacks and building lot line to lot line. It gets denied and they then appeal to the elected officials (Planning and Zoning are appointed), often using the "taking food out of my children's mouths" argument.
Comprehensive plans aren't the actual zoning of the land.
It's a guide for how land can be rezoned in request in the future and its often not followed.
There have been several times an apartment complex or tow home community was denied, but then was allowed to be resubmitted as a 55+ community and it was approved.
This is where the problem of NIMBYism/colored shirt people mixed with local politicians bowing to local pressure to often not follow comprehensive plans to follow mixed housing type zoning along busier corridors.
Comprehensive plans aren't the actual zoning of the land.
It's a guide for how land can be rezoned in request in the future and its often not followed.
There have been several times an apartment complex or tow home community was denied, but then was allowed to be resubmitted as a 55+ community and it was approved.
This is where the problem of NIMBYism/colored shirt people mixed with local politicians bowing to local pressure to often not follow comprehensive plans to follow mixed housing type zoning along busier corridors.
Comp Plans guide development, Zoning codes lay out the uses based on the Comp Plan.
If an area in the Zoning code specifies a certain type of development goes in a certain area, in this case an over 55 development, then anything else is going to be denied. It has nothing to do with NIMBYism, or what color shirt anyone wears.
I've fought these battles for a lot longer than you've probably been alive.
Comp Plans guide development, Zoning codes lay out the uses based on the Comp Plan.
If an area in the Zoning code specifies a certain type of development goes in a certain area, in this case an over 55 development, then anything else is going to be denied. It has nothing to do with NIMBYism, or what color shirt anyone wears.
I've fought these battles for a lot longer than you've probably been alive.
I know what comprehensive plans are, but you're not looking at it in proper context, so you can ignore what I have said...
Comprehensive plans exist, but they still require property to be rezoned for development. A comprehensive plan is not the actual zoning. Each plot of land has to be rezoned at the request of the owner for the neendevolpment, not at a change of the comprehensive plan.
Often times property is not allowed to be rezone within the comprehensive plan. In some instances, it has been allowed if it is 55+ Zoning, but not without the 55+ provision. Others they are required to stay R-100, but they wouldn't allow it to be rezoned to align with the comprehensive plan.
This happens all the time. It is caused by nimbyism. It's caused by small groups of people lobbying their local leaders to not allow for the Zoning change, even when it fits within tue comprehensive plan. This has been common along the US78 corridor thay allows for mixed use thay allows townhouses. Sometimes they get the rezoning, but sometimes they don't, but itnwas in the comprehensive plan to allow for it.
This upsets the free market and creates price differences created mentioned by the OP.
I don't care if you're older. Thay just shows your bias', which are baked into your arguments. I can tell you're easily defensive about 55+ and assume you're in the community that wants cheaper housing at the cost of American families and the generations behind you.
You're posts have been flip flopping. You want to argue for the free market, yet you argue against it by allowing Zoning patterns that only make housing for one type of consumer. You argue for the free market, then you turn around and get annoyed at developers for wanting to build what the market demands.
Not all of them are cheap. I live in one and my rent is above market rate. It's a retirement community that has everything from inexpensive HUD housing to expensive cottages which rent for much more than your usual home mortgage.
Either way you get what you pay for and there's benefits from living in a senior building. No one is going to be waking you up at night w/ boombox music at 2AM, or dealing drugs next door, or having screaming fights w/ their spouse or company. There are usually a lot of rules, and even someone like me who hates rules understands the reason for them. It makes life where I live a lot more pleasant.
The best deals are the senior mobile home parks. Florida, New Mexico and some other states have a lot of these. You buy your home and lease the land. The lot rental fee usually includes free cable, garbage pickup and lawn maintenance. I owned two or three of these ranging from $10,000 to $15,000 and they're just like a house, although you're responsible for its upkeep. They're often sold complete w/ everything in place, from fully furnished to having plates and sheets.
These are taxed through your DMV, I paid $8 a year for my last one. You don't even want to know what the yearly property taxes were on a Galveston condo! Many parks won't let you rent them out, so everyone has something invested in things. 5 years ago all my mo bills in a St Pete park including utilities, internet/phone and credit card payments totaled around $600. I moved to a senior apt because I'm single now and there's a lot of things to do in these. We have a gym, library, movie nights and other get togethers. In a mobile home park you're sort of on your own unless you're a Yankee snowbird who plays shuffleboard and drinks beer. I'm a Southerner who shoots pool and drinks bourbon, its apples and oranges.
Last edited by stephenMM; 01-18-2024 at 04:34 AM..
I know what comprehensive plans are, but you're not looking at it in proper context, so you can ignore what I have said...
Comprehensive plans exist, but they still require property to be rezoned for development. A comprehensive plan is not the actual zoning. Each plot of land has to be rezoned at the request of the owner for the neendevolpment, not at a change of the comprehensive plan.
Often times property is not allowed to be rezone within the comprehensive plan. In some instances, it has been allowed if it is 55+ Zoning, but not without the 55+ provision. Others they are required to stay R-100, but they wouldn't allow it to be rezoned to align with the comprehensive plan.
This happens all the time. It is caused by nimbyism. It's caused by small groups of people lobbying their local leaders to not allow for the Zoning change, even when it fits within tue comprehensive plan. This has been common along the US78 corridor thay allows for mixed use thay allows townhouses. Sometimes they get the rezoning, but sometimes they don't, but itnwas in the comprehensive plan to allow for it.
This upsets the free market and creates price differences created mentioned by the OP.
I don't care if you're older. Thay just shows your bias', which are baked into your arguments. I can tell you're easily defensive about 55+ and assume you're in the community that wants cheaper housing at the cost of American families and the generations behind you.
You're posts have been flip flopping. You want to argue for the free market, yet you argue against it by allowing Zoning patterns that only make housing for one type of consumer. You argue for the free market, then you turn around and get annoyed at developers for wanting to build what the market demands.
1st bold: Then Georgia is different than almost everywhere else. A Comp Plan is adopted and the Zoning changes are then adopted that follow it, the property owner doesn't have to request anything.
2nd bold and 3rd bolds: I don't quite understand what you're saying here. If a use is allowed then it's allowed, no rezoning is necessary. Now if you're saying that if an area is zoned for one use, in this case Mixed Use-Commercial, and a developer wants a zoning adjustment to townhouses then the adjoining residents have every right to oppose the change for a number of reasons. Primarily they bought their houses under one set of circumstances and now a mid-stream change is proposed, one that very well may devalue their property. Mixed Use-Commercial is of higher value, and that spreads to adjoining residential properties, than a townhouse development. That doesn't take into account the ancillary revenue inputs from sales and income taxes from the MU-C.
4th bold: I have no real brief for over-55 or not. As a former elected official I understand the "Why" of local governments wanting those developments.
As a note, I live in a quite affordable town (once you get off the waterfront), although that's changing because people are morons.
As far as me "flip flopping", what you propose, zoning changes because "someone wants to build something that's not allowed in the area" is a recipe for chaos.
As I said, I've been involved in this for a long time and every developer I've dealt with, save one, always needed numerous Special Exceptions, variances and concessions. I would always note that if he needed all those, especially concessions like not paying for water and sewer taps, that the project may not be viable.
I deal daily, and will for the rest of my life, with a townhouse development that never should have been built. The reasons range from traffic so bad I can't get out of my driveway some mornings to environmental degradation to wildlife issues to some of the very expensive units being condemned due to subsidence and foundation collapse.
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