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Pay a higher salary. Train recruits more carefully. Demonstrate that the job can be done without having to beat people into submission. If qualified immunity is taken away, pay for your police to have liability insurance.
That solves most of the problems.
Not really that difficult.
Most large municipal police departments all ready pay very competitive salaries to recruits and signing bonuses for veteran officers making lateral transfers from other agencies. Contrary to items being posted on social media many American police officers do receive as much if not more training than their European counterparts. The European model includes two to four years of "police science" in college before the officer is hired. About 31% of American police officers have four year degree, 51% have a two year degree and 7% have a master's degree. The results of research on the value of a college educated police officer are mixed. I had a master's degree when I was hired but I don't believe that it made me a better officer. I worked with great cops with just a high school diploma and college educated officers that were inept. On average officers in the U.S. receive about 840 hours (21 weeks) of police academy training. Once the officer reports to patrol unit they're on probation for a year and supervised by their Field Training Officer. No one is training anyone to beat anyone into submission. Recruits in the academy receive defensive tactics training using empty handed techniques like wrist locks, pressure points, blocks. etc. They're trained in the correct use of intermediate weapons like batons and OC Spray. They also spend hour learning the correct application of handcuffs and safely transporting a suspect once they are handcuffed. Most departments require that officers be re-certified in these skills quarterly or every six months. During this training as well as firearms training officers learn the "Use of Force Continuum" regarding what levels are force are appropriate when they're on duty. In the academy and during post academy training officers are trained in the use of deescalation techniques. They apply these techniques in pretty scenarios with role players. Once rookies are in the field their FTO's also accesses their ability to deescalate possibly volatile situations with the public.
By definition Qualified immunity is designed to protect all but the plainly incompetent or those who knowingly violate the law. Law enforcement officers are entitled to qualified immunity when their actions do not violate a clearly established statutory or constitutional right. Eliminating qualified immunity will only serve to increase the number of frivolous law suits filed against individuals and agencies as well as give people one less reason to become a police officer. For the record most law enforcement officers already have their own personal liability insurance. Some agencies will reimburse the officer and others will not.
I suggest that you contact your local police department and see if they can arrange a ride along for you. Better yet attend a citizen's academy of one is available. I think you'll find it very enlightening.
Nearly every urban police department in the nation is having trouble finding qualified police recruits to replace the officers retiring or resigning. The events of the last month are only going to exacerbate this problem. In 2020 I don’t know why any sane person would seek a career in law enforcement in most urban jurisdictions. There’s much risk, too much civil and criminal liability, too much kick back from an often hostile and ungrateful public and far too little support from management and politicians. I retired in 2018 from law enforcement after working in two of the most violent cities in the U.S. When I began my career the job was challenging and dangerous but in the last decade working conditions have deteriorated rapidly for cops. More people want to resist arrest and fight as well as injure and kill law enforcement officers. There have been far too many instances where officers have been ambushed by assailants and even snipers sitting in their patrol cars, in a restaurant or even at police stations. In many jurisdictions criminals are able to commit crimes with impunity because they're confident there will be no consequences for their actions. The vast majority of the men and women I served with in municipal, county, state and federal law enforcement are honorable people that attempt to do their jobs to the best of their ability and within the scope of the law. Sadly, a few bad apples slip through the hiring and training process and disgrace the badge and our profession. Currently there's a movement by some members of the public and politicians to defund the police or disestablish police departments all together. If that occurs in a community I don't believe it'll have a positive outcome. However, as they say "People get the government that they deserve."
Last edited by irishcopper; 06-26-2020 at 10:09 AM..
Pay a higher salary. Train recruits more carefully. Demonstrate that the job can be done without having to beat people into submission. If qualified immunity is taken away, pay for your police to have liability insurance.
That solves most of the problems.
Not really that difficult.
So when some nutjob that is drunk, high on something, or just plain angry at the world comes at a cop intent of beating up and or killing that cop then we should expect the cop to back down and move away?
There is no amount of training that can stop the fight or flight instincts we all have.
If someone wants to fight it is hard to stop them.
Imagine if the cops at that Wendy's had let that drunk guy run off with their tazer and around the corner he shoots someone with it or beats them with it in order to steal their car to get away.. The Police would be blamed for that person being beat up.
I say the training should start at home. Parents need to teach their kids not to hate the cops and more importantly that the best way to avoid the cops is to not break the law. Floyd broke the law and what happened to him was murder but what if the cops had never been called. The guy at the Wendy's was passed out drunk in the Drive thru. Drunk driving is against the law.
I would say that it is not really that difficult to NOT break laws.
Why? Would they treat law breakers differently? The laws are the same, or should be, for everyone.
Sure, but there is probably a chance they don't threaten to shoot a guy right away just because he's picking up trash with an "unknown object in his left hand", namely a trash picker...
As a minimum, maybe they would be able to recognize better who's a threat and who's not.
I think that's the problem. We should not defund police, we should fund them more, so that these guys are now properly trained to recognize real threats. A black student using a trash picker to clean up his dorm front yard is not a trespasser! And why try to use a gun against a trespasser? I hope that with relevant training, those things can be improved.
Sure, but there is probably a chance they don't threaten to shoot a guy right away just because he's picking up trash with an "unknown object in his left hand", namely a trash picker...
As a minimum, maybe they would be able to recognize better who's a threat and who's not.
I think that's the problem. We should not defund police, we should fund them more, so that these guys are now properly trained to recognize real threats. A black student using a trash picker to clean up his dorm front yard is not a trespasser! And why try to use a gun against a trespasser? I hope that with relevant training, those things can be improved.
Its not that easy unfortunately.
I believe the real problem is officers having the amount of authority they do, simply having THAT much authority, for long periods of time, has been proven to impact a persons mentality, (Stanford Prison Experiment), they had to stop the student experiment because the kids playing the guards were going off the deep end with their authority, they were abusing the other kids, it was really BAD, and these were only kids in an experiment!! Just imagine what a guy who has this amount of authority is effected, after 10-15 yrs?!
Most large municipal police departments all ready pay very competitive salaries to recruits and signing bonuses for veteran officers making lateral transfers from other agencies. Contrary to items being posted on social media many American police officers do receive as much if not more training than their European counterparts. The European model includes two to four years of "police science" in college before the officer is hired. About 31% of American police officers have four year degree, 51% have a two year degree and 7% have a master's degree. The results of research on the value of a college educated police officer are mixed. I had a master's degree when I was hired but I don't believe that it made me a better officer. I worked with great cops with just a high school diploma and college educated officers that were inept. On average officers in the U.S. receive about 840 hours (21 weeks) of police academy training. Once the officer reports to patrol unit they're on probation for a year and supervised by their Field Training Officer. No one is training anyone to beat anyone into submission. Recruits in the academy receive defensive tactics training using empty handed techniques like wrist locks, pressure points, blocks. etc. They're trained in the correct use of intermediate weapons like batons and OC Spray. They also spend hour learning the correct application of handcuffs and safely transporting a suspect once they are handcuffed. Most departments require that officers be re-certified in these skills quarterly or every six months. During this training as well as firearms training officers learn the "Use of Force Continuum" regarding what levels are force are appropriate when they're on duty. In the academy and during post academy training officers are trained in the use of deescalation techniques. They apply these techniques in pretty scenarios with role players. Once rookies are in the field their FTO's also accesses their ability to deescalate possibly volatile situations with the public.
By definition Qualified immunity is designed to protect all but the plainly incompetent or those who knowingly violate the law. Law enforcement officers are entitled to qualified immunity when their actions do not violate a clearly established statutory or constitutional right. Eliminating qualified immunity will only serve to increase the number of frivolous law suits filed against individuals and agencies as well as give people one less reason to become a police officer. For the record most law enforcement officers already have their own personal liability insurance. Some agencies will reimburse the officer and others will not.
I suggest that you contact your local police department and see if they can arrange a ride along for you. Better yet attend a citizen's academy of one is available. I think you'll find it very enlightening.
Nearly every urban police department in the nation is having trouble finding qualified police recruits to replace the officers retiring or resigning. The events of the last month are only going to exacerbate this problem. In 2020 I don’t know why any sane person would seek a career in law enforcement in most urban jurisdictions. There’s much risk, too much civil and criminal liability, too much kick back from an often hostile and ungrateful public and far too little support from management and politicians. I retired in 2018 from law enforcement after working in two of the most violent cities in the U.S. When I began my career the job was challenging and dangerous but in the last decade working conditions have deteriorated rapidly for cops. More people want to resist arrest and fight as well as injure and kill law enforcement officers. There have been far too many instances where officers have been ambushed by assailants and even snipers sitting in their patrol cars, in a restaurant or even at police stations. In many jurisdictions criminals are able to commit crimes with impunity because they're confident there will be no consequences for their actions. The vast majority of the men and women I served with in municipal, county, state and federal law enforcement are honorable people that attempt to do their jobs to the best of their ability and within the scope of the law. Sadly, a few bad apples slip through the hiring and training process and disgrace the badge and our profession. Currently there's a movement by some members of the public and politicians to defund the police or disestablish police departments all together. If that occurs in a community I don't believe it'll have a positive outcome. However, as they say "People get the government that they deserve."
Thanks for your post. Very thoughtful and insightful. I mostly agree with the bad apple analogy in that overtly bad cops are a small share of the total. But, it does seem the overall system is 1) not proactive enough in seeking to identify the bad apples and 2) is too slow to remove them once they are detected.
Sure, but there is probably a chance they don't threaten to shoot a guy right away just because he's picking up trash with an "unknown object in his left hand", namely a trash picker...
As a minimum, maybe they would be able to recognize better who's a threat and who's not.
I think that's the problem. We should not defund police, we should fund them more, so that these guys are now properly trained to recognize real threats. A black student using a trash picker to clean up his dorm front yard is not a trespasser! And why try to use a gun against a trespasser? I hope that with relevant training, those things can be improved.
That officer was fired. In fact, most of the officers in these horrible videos that keep getting circulated on social media were fired. The problem is, no one bothers to look into it. Then you have people, with the only goal being the accumulation of political power, that keeps these videos in circulation to further anger people. These poor pawns then burn down their own cities, harming themselves and others, demanding justice that has already been served.
Trayvon Martin is a perfect example. The rule of law was followed. A man was tried in court, and judged not guilty by a jury of his peers, the system worked. Just liked it worked for O.J. The difference between the two is that Trayvon's death was used as a rallying cry to gain political power.
Going back to the original post, it is going to be extremely difficult to hire first responders in these cities. Due to cultural differences, blacks don't serve in the military, or as first responders, in the same numbers that whites do. So the politicians that are demanding that black majority cities, have a mostly black police department need to look at the facts. It isn't achievable unless you find a way to get blacks to start applying. Add in the social stigma that many black officers have to deal with and the problem gets even worse.
When I lived in Jacksonville, FL, a large city with a large black population, I would marvel when arriving at a large accident scene and not seeing a single black officer, EMT, or firefighter there.
Will cities with large minority populations have trouble staffing police departments?
Nope.
But cities with timid or weak-willed police chiefs, mayors etc. who are afraid to back up their police officers in the street, might have a lot of trouble getting good police to work for them.
What kind of police will remain, after the good ones have left?
Going back to the original post, it is going to be extremely difficult to hire first responders in these cities. Due to cultural differences, blacks don't serve in the military, or as first responders, in the same numbers that whites do. So the politicians that are demanding that black majority cities, have a mostly black police department need to look at the facts. It isn't achievable unless you find a way to get blacks to start applying.
Actually it appears black people serve in the military at higher rates then do whites. In 2017, 16 percent of the military was black vs 13.4 percent of the general population. 57 percent were white vs 60 percent of the total population.
Going back to the original post, it is going to be extremely difficult to hire first responders in these cities. Due to cultural differences, blacks don't serve in the military, or as first responders, in the same numbers that whites do. So the politicians that are demanding that black majority cities, have a mostly black police department need to look at the facts. It isn't achievable unless you find a way to get blacks to start applying. Add in the social stigma that many black officers have to deal with and the problem gets even worse.
When I lived in Jacksonville, FL, a large city with a large black population, I would marvel when arriving at a large accident scene and not seeing a single black officer, EMT, or firefighter there.
According to 2018 statistics from datausa, the race and ethnicity of police officers:
Representing 12.8% of Police officers, Black (Non-Hispanic) is the second most common race or ethnicity in this occupation. That matches closely to the Black population % in the USA.
They represent 7.49% of firefighters.
USnews stats read that Black EMTs are 5%.
The last two professions show that Blacks in these positions are lower than overall population % but this would no doubt increase if these job positions are targeted to hire more Blacks.
That officer was fired. In fact, most of the officers in these horrible videos that keep getting circulated on social media were fired. The problem is, no one bothers to look into it. Then you have people, with the only goal being the accumulation of political power, that keeps these videos in circulation to further anger people. These poor pawns then burn down their own cities, harming themselves and others, demanding justice that has already been served.
Trayvon Martin is a perfect example. The rule of law was followed. A man was tried in court, and judged not guilty by a jury of his peers, the system worked. Just liked it worked for O.J. The difference between the two is that Trayvon's death was used as a rallying cry to gain political power.
Going back to the original post, it is going to be extremely difficult to hire first responders in these cities. Due to cultural differences, blacks don't serve in the military, or as first responders, in the same numbers that whites do. So the politicians that are demanding that black majority cities, have a mostly black police department need to look at the facts. It isn't achievable unless you find a way to get blacks to start applying. Add in the social stigma that many black officers have to deal with and the problem gets even worse.
When I lived in Jacksonville, FL, a large city with a large black population, I would marvel when arriving at a large accident scene and not seeing a single black officer, EMT, or firefighter there.
Trayvon Martin is not the perfect example. Angela Corey was ousted as Jacksonville’s state attorney for a reason, and that is because she routinely went forward on charges that were way too high, including the charges on George Zimmerman (she was special prosecutor in that case).
Jacksonville does or did have a reduced number of Black people serving in city jobs, but they also had a draconian hiring system in terms of the medical requirements. I had a friend who worked in the HR department (primarily with the civil service testing/medical testing) and the stories she told were insane about why they would reject people. They also required some incredibly invasive physicals for women for many years that were totally irrelevant to any position that they might have. It was certainly no way to increase diversity.
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Anecdotes ring true for some areas but not others
