We are too obsessed with traveling (politician, economy, retire, FBI)

[Mike from back east]

Originally Posted by rokuremote

This discussion has turned more into people not being able to appreciate different choices than it is a Great Debate.

Threads often chase nuances down side streets as we suss out shades of gray seen through the eyes of our diverse members. Give it a while to see where postings lead us; if we get too far astray I'll close this down if we can't stay close to the core of the OP's thesis that people are obsessed with travel and/or have a desire to escape some aspect (yet undefined) of their lives.

I've already posted my old fogey feelings.

Earlier, Phil P said:

And it's weird because Americans have the biggest and nicest homes in the world, ...

At 75 that's where I'm at now, here in the nice home we have, a home unlike the crummy dumps we lived in when I was a kid growing up in poverty back east. As the years went by I was always glad to get home, to MY home, MY bed, and MY sanctuary. I have two sanctuaries: my wife and my home. I appreciate what I have and find traveling a step down; too many hotels these days have bed bugs and poor sanitation unless I spend a small king's ransom for really fine digs.

Phil P also said:

... it doesn't make sense to want to escape that unless they don't really appreciate what's there.

That hit a nerve. If America is becoming so cookie cutter that it's the same everywhere, then maybe people really NEED to escape the dreariness of it all. People (me too) complain that shopping malls have all the same stores no matter where you go, and that suburbia all looks the same everywhere, with the usual strip malls with the usual mix of stores, and the same fast food "nutrition." Critic James Kunstler spoke about this, in his unique and honest style, in his book "The Geography of Nowhere" which he characterizes as "...the greatest misallocation of resources in the history of the world. America is still building more of this crap, still hostage to the deadly paradigm that is turning the American landscape into a pathetic cartoon." . . . . We only go to Arrowhead Mall in Glendale, AZ for one thing -- the Apple Store. Otherwise, all the houses here are the same beige stucco, all the strip malls have a pharmacy, fast food joint, dry cleaner, nail and hair spa, realtor, bank branch, etc, and you have to drive to get to it, walkability is missing in our lives. Maybe the young ones are on to something with all their travel; maybe they're sick of suburbia and the lack of vibrant, walkable cities, so they head out for remote areas and foreign venues. Maybe if they see how nice many European or Asian cities can be then maybe they can transform America when it's their time to control (transform?) the country. Fingers crossed. IMO my generation sensed the sameness, sprawl, and pollution, as evinced in a song, in 1970, by Three Dog Night called "Out In The Country" which is worth looking up on youtube.

But many young ones haven't yet hit the same wall I did, they're still hungry, still want to see and experience. Is there a point where travel becomes too much travel? Probably depends on the person, whenever they hit their wall. Are there reasons why people seek frequent escape? Do these wants and desires change over time as people change over time? I think it did for me.

When I was younger I was a bit enthusiastic about traveling but that faded after many business trips on behalf of my Army employer. A couple of cruises cured me of any tendency to gluttony. Too much food is as bad as not enough. (Instead of a cruise I recommend a week in the Florida Keys, in November, when most tourists are gone and before "high season" rates kick in after New Year's and before Spring Break lunacy.) I still have a lot of curiosity about things, but no longer feel the need to go see, hear, touch, smell or taste much of it; thus I am enthralled for days with a good book. I've read several excellent books on the Viet Nam war but have zero desire to go there. I've read plenty of books on the Civil War, have walked Pickett's Charge, but will never again set foot on a killing field; no more of such atrocity. I would still like to take my wife to Europe, to see real civilization, and of course ride the trains. If my health issues subside I could take her on one last trip, a doozy, fly to London, ride the Chunnel train to Paris, see the Eiffel Tower (I know, bucket list), drink some French wine, then ride a train to Berlin to see what real trains looks like, get some schnitzel and good German Beer, and maybe a trip on some of the exquisite Swiss rails.

So, let's see how it goes with this thread.

[BigCityDreamer]

Originally Posted by Mike from back east

I would still like to take my wife to Germany or Paris, to see some really nice forms of civilization, and of course ride the trains. If my health issues subside I could take her on one last trip, a doozy, fly to London, ride the Chunnel train to Paris, see the Eiffel Tower (I know, bucket list), drink some French wine, then ride a train to Berlin to see what real trains looks like, get some schnitzel and good German Beer, and maybe a trip on some of the exquisite Swiss rails.

In my opinion, London and Paris are two cities that everybody who can afford to should visit at least once in their lifetime.

I argue in favor of quality over quantity when it comes to traveling. Try to go outside of the peak tourist season.

These two cities get my stamp of approval.

[tnff]

Originally Posted by Mike from back east

When I was younger I was a bit enthusiastic about traveling and but that faded after many business trips on behalf of my Army employer. A couple of cruises cured me of any tendency to gluttony. Too much food is as bad as not enough. (Instead of a cruise I recommend a week in the Florida Keys, in November, when most tourists are gone and before "high season" rates kick in after New Year's and before Spring Break lunacy.) I still have a lot of curiosity about things, but no longer feel the need to go see, hear, touch, smell or taste much of it; thus I am enthralled for days with a good book. I've read several excellent books on the Viet Nam war but have zero desire to go there. I've read plenty of books on the Civil War, have walked Pickett's Charge, but will never set foot again on a killing field; no more of such atrocity. I would still like to take my wife to Germany or Paris, to see some really nice forms of civilization, and of course ride the trains. If my health issues subside I could take her on one last trip, a doozy, fly to London, ride the Chunnel train to Paris, see the Eiffel Tower (I know, bucket list), drink some French wine, then ride a train to Berlin to see what real trains looks like, get some schnitzel and good German Beer, and maybe a trip on some of the exquisite Swiss rails.

For me, that's a big part of it. I'd be happy to never get on another plane again. We loved cruising back in the dark ages BC (Before Children). Today the problem is the cruise ships have gotten too big and too crowded like a floating city. That's what I want to get away from. My favorite cruise was years ago, where the "out island" was just that. They took us ashore on a fixed-up WW2 landing craft, dropped the ramp and waded ashore. Men to the left of the coconut tree; ladies to the right. Food was charcoal grills set up on the beach. A real tropical deserted island. Now days it's a resort itself with all the things I want to get away from.

[Mike from back east]

Originally Posted by tnff

For me, that's a big part of it. I'd be happy to never get on another plane again. We loved cruising back in the dark ages BC (Before Children). Today the problem is the cruise ships have gotten too big and too crowded like a floating city. That's what I want to get away from. My favorite cruise was years ago, where the "out island" was just that. They took us ashore on a fixed-up WW2 landing craft, dropped the ramp and waded ashore. Men to the left of the coconut tree; ladies to the right. Food was charcoal grills set up on the beach. A real tropical deserted island. Now days it's a resort itself with all the things I want to get away from.

Thank you. That cruise sounds similar to one my wife and I took in the late 1980s on the legendary SS Norway, nee SS France. No landing craft, but they ferried us ashore in small vessels called "tenders" (capacity 400, small?) which the crew lowered over the sides like lifeboats (IMO some fine seamanship there). Took us to their private island where we ate and played in the water. A great ship in it's day it was broken up for scrap about 15 years ago. I posted my feelings about today's cruises well earlier, so I'll not repeat it here. The "tenders" may be seen near the bow of the ship in this photo.

People need to find their own level of how much travel is enough for their needs.

[rokuremote]

People travel for multitudes of reasons, to a multiple destinations. Far too many variables to generalize.

For better or worse, I agree that social media has made it too easy for things like humble-bragging and peacocking about travel. In previous generations maybe it was the "oh come watch our slideshow from our trip to the Poconos."

I try not to judge...anyone who attempts to break out of their routine gets credit in my book, whether via travel, or learning a new language, or attempting a new skill. I don't think there's a downside to breaking out of routine most of the time. I can appreciate how sometimes appearances might suggest someone is just travelling or doing whatever just for the clicks or "likes" but I don't really attribute too much importance to it.

[westsideboy]

Travel if you want, when you can. You are are always an injury, illness, bad financial break, away from it becoming difficult to impossible.

Personally, my obession isn't learning about different places, although that is fun. I want to learn as much as possible about ONE place, the place my family has lived for 250 years. I think the world is full of more and more people who have breadth of knowledge; knowing a little bit about a lot of different places. What I value more is depth of knowledge; knowing a whole lot about one little patch of earth, and that type of knowledge is fading.

[GiGi603]

Originally Posted by Phil P

Great post.

Travel becomes a form of escape, when like you're mentioning, people feel the push to get away rather than the pull to explore something new. And it's weird because Americans have the biggest and nicest homes in the world, it doesn't make sense to want to escape that unless they don't really appreciate what's there.

The destinations get me as well. agreed, if people were looking for cultural experience, there would be a lot more people taking a quick three hour flight to central Mexico or Guatemala to go spend time around the indigenous cultures and go do some hiking in the forests there. To me that's the exciting travel. Instead it's a lot more Cancun.

You sound a bit judgemental.

How do you know where people are going? And if you do, how does it affect you?
You do you.

I work in the travel industry. People travel for all kinds of reasons. There are people that keep going back to the same destination--good for them if that what makes them happy. Others go for new experiences. You do you--let others do what they want.

[LeisureSLarry]

I would reiterate what some others have said, if you are going to travel for geographical beauty then the US has it all and there really is no need to look further. If you are looking for culture then you need to go to a place to experience the culture for more than a week or two. It is a pet peeve of mine when I hear generalities about what a place is like because someone was there for a week. 'Germany was XYZ and Germans are XYZ' - if you go there and live amongst them then you can speak to their culture, not traveling around a couple cities as a tourist for a few weeks.

Culture in many non-1st world, more exotic locales outside of non-cultural tourist areas aren't pleasant. I was adventurous when I was younger and got into some fairly shady situations (even some in 1st world countries) so it isn't for the faint of heart. If you are seeking culture you need to engrain yourself into the culture as anything other than a tourist. Even Hawaii, there are many stories of whites (Haoles), being harrassed once you get out of the tourist stream and start to experience the culture.

I will also say monuments, wonders of the world, etc. - Eiffel tower, Coliseum or whatever look the same in person as they do in photos, at least to me. Maybe I didn't appreciate it, well, I probably didn't but it was as if there was some form of accomplishment tied to actually seeing something but that definitely wore off. I would be exhausted after trips where we power traveled to see as much as possible.

The older I get I start to wish I had stuff vs. memories of stuff. You can have the thumbs up picture of me on the great wall in exchange for a pontoon boat any day.

[MarisaAnna]

Actually it seems Australia has the largest houses in the world and it does not stop people wanting to travel. Qantas has just posted a record profit as a result of demand and high ticket prices.
Germans and Northern Europeans are very keen travellers despite having very comfortable lives at home.
It just seems to be a cultural difference that many Americans prefer to spend their money in other ways.
I have read that with cruising, Americans are more interested in the cruise experience, the food and recreation. Australians (and probably other nationalities) are more interested in the cruise ports.

Our documents are arriving today for our next trip. Portugal, Spain Morocco and Malta. Exciting, and we tell ourselves that the twenty-four hour flight to Lisbon is just a day in our lives.

[LeisureSLarry]

Originally Posted by MarisaAnna

Actually it seems Australia has the largest houses in the world and it does not stop people wanting to travel. Qantas has just posted a record profit as a result of demand and high ticket prices.
Germans and Northern Europeans are very keen travellers despite having very comfortable lives at home.
It just seems to be a cultural difference that many Americans prefer to spend their money in other ways.
I have read that with cruising, Americans are more interested in the cruise experience, the food and recreation. Australians (and probably other nationalities) are more interested in the cruise ports.

Our documents are arriving today for our next trip. Portugal, Spain Morocco and Malta. Exciting, and we tell ourselves that the twenty-four hour flight to Lisbon is just a day in our lives.

I sincerely wish you the best trip - it sounds awesome, I always wanted to visit Portugal mostly because of the lax drug culture and I thought it looked cool. I might sound a bit crass but to the point of understanding/experiencing culture, I remember talking to an ex-FBI agent neighbor who lived in Malta and he talked incessantly about how lazy the Maltese are, but you are going on vacation, not living there I guess.

I took a train ride from Madrid to Paris through the Pyrenees when I was young, they lifted the train off the tracks because of the different scales implemented during the war. I guess cool things to know but what are you hoping to get out of your trip, where its only a day travel pain, personally?

What satisfies you about going on this journey?

I have so much excitement at home, and my house isn't even big, just amenity rich, it makes travel seem difficult, troublesome and uncomfortable. I cannot do 1/10 of what I want to do here - how do you have time? There are festivals, beaches, holidays, fireworks, shows - it is overwhelming. Projects, hobbies, etc. I get weddings, graduations - fall here is crazy - we have apple festivals, orchards, Halloween. Boats, 4x4s, guns, fireworks.. We want to smelt, wood work, I have paintball guns and balls I haven't used, an outdoor movie theater, want to set up a chicken coop and outdoor smoke house, just set up a 10 x 10 firepit.

The thing you describe regarding Europeans and Australians, you are closed in, we aren't here in a lot of places. You leave because you are confined IMO and a lot of us here arent, yet.