Should I be wary now of buying a home in a partially developed community like the Woodlands Hills? (neighborhood, shops)

[WRM20]

Originally Posted by dd1153

Howard Hughes Development is one of the most reputable developers in the country, as well as Houston. When you buy in a development you are also buying the reputation of the developer and builders.

Howard Hughes developed The Woodlands and Bridgeland - 2 of the highest ranked communities in the greater Houston area.

Retail needs rooftops to succeed - Bridgeland has 7,000 homes and is just now getting the major retail buildings proposed. I would imagine The Woodland Hills will not have the same city center type of scale for retail so it shouldn’t take that many rooftops to support those businesses.

Where you get into trouble is a single builder developed neighborhood. They have 100% control and influence on community amenities, tax rates, HOA rates, home prices, home features, builder guidelines & much more.

This is why true master planned communities are so desirable.

The Woodland Hills is a solid investment IMO.

Howard Hughes DID NOT develop The Woodlands. It bought what was left of the Woodlands when it bought Mitchell Development. HH Corp has been clear cutting for new development, and has not been following the methods that Mitchell did. Lots of folks up there are not at all happy with HH. Having said that, HH is one of the better developers.

[LocalPlanner]

Originally Posted by WRM20

Howard Hughes DID NOT develop The Woodlands. It bought what was left of the Woodlands when it bought Mitchell Development. HH Corp has been clear cutting for new development, and has not been following the methods that Mitchell did. Lots of folks up there are not at all happy with HH. Having said that, HH is one of the better developers.

Actually HH bought The Woodlands from Rouse and Morgan Stanley, which had acquired The Woodlands Development Company from Mitchell some years earlier. It may be that HH bought Rouse whole, I can't remember exactly.

[jphripjah]

Originally Posted by escanlan

The future is very uncertain now regardless of what those making money

You mention a MUD above but I did not find any indication of one. The tax records for existing homes do not display a MUD tax and aerials did not show a "Poop Plant" anywhere. They are paying Conroe City taxes and I expect they are serviced by the Conroe sewer system? Is a MUD planned for successive phases of the development?

Thank you for your detailed response.

I think there may be a MUD tax:

https://thewoodlandshills.com/wp-con...llsTaxComp.pdf

[WRM20]

Originally Posted by jphripjah

Thank you for your detailed response.

I think there may be a MUD tax:

https://thewoodlandshills.com/wp-con...llsTaxComp.pdf

Wow, the total rate for Woodlands Hills is 3.42 before homestead exemptions. MUD tax is 1.10. School district is Willis, but I have no idea what the schools are like there.

[jeffdoorgunner]

Originally Posted by jphripjah

Thank you for your detailed response.

I think there may be a MUD tax:

https://thewoodlandshills.com/wp-con...llsTaxComp.pdf

I just had a home built here. Taxes are nasty.

[jphripjah]

Originally Posted by jeffdoorgunner

I just had a home built here. Taxes are nasty.

Any concerns, rumors, etc. in the neighborhood?

I saw a news article about plans to build a church across from the elementary school but nothing else about what the plans are for retail amenities.

[escanlan]

Originally Posted by jphripjah

Thank you for your detailed response.

I think there may be a MUD tax:

https://thewoodlandshills.com/wp-con...llsTaxComp.pdf

Interesting! I only checked the County Tax Assessor site. For MUD taxes the Tax Assessor does not have to be the one to collect it, it could be a separate entity collecting it. So it can possibly not show there. Do make sure that it is a MUD. The developer/Sales Agent are required to provide that information to you prior to signing any contract.


For a MUD what typically happens is the developer will sell bonds to investors to pay for the construction of the infrastructure; roads, water system (including storage towers if needed), waste collection/treatment (to include a waste processing plant "Poop Plant" if needed), possible common area construction features (pools, club houses, etc.), and anything else they can sell a bond to finance or possibly need to finance. The MUD taxes are there to pay those bonds off with the investors in the bonds making interest just like any other investment. The interest rate is determined by many things but it ads to the life of the bond (pay off date).


Before going any further a note about what I found on a simple search of that development and MUD. The information was not clear and there appeared to be possibly more than one MUD created and for a planned development of that size (4000+ homes) that is a possibility. Also during the search I ran across previous City of Conroe meeting minute transcripts that seemed to indicate that the development water and sewer systems were being connected to the City of Conroe delivery/processing systems. That has both good and bad points about it but it would explain why I did not see any water towers or "Poop Plants" in the aerial views. Again the sales people can answer what MUD(s) have been created, for what purpose, for serving what part of the development, what systems they have installed (subterranean piping, above ground towers, "Poop Plants", lift stations for "Poop Plant" delivery, etc.).


A little more on MUD's before we continue. The developer will get $X's of money approved in bonds that can be issued/sold (but not necessarily all are) to build the infrastructure. They will draw on (sell) bonds as needed to build the infrastructure. During the build the bonds might also be used to maintain the infrastructure until the development closes out (last home sold) or until such point there are enough homes generating enough water/sewer fees to pay for its maintenance. The bonds may or may not include additional money for maintenance of the infrastructure after close-out but that is not typical as use fees (water and sewer bill) typically pays for that. If there are no water towers, "Poop Plants", etc., as part of the development then that is a HUGE burden off the homeowners MUD tax costs since obviously they were not installed.


One last item about MUD's is how long they can last as a MUD and MUD services. They can last indefinitely even after the bonds have been paid off. These are typically long term bonds (think 30 years). In that time the local municipality (Conroe or even Willis) can grow to such large size it can encircle a MUD. They generally can not annex the MUD into the City unless they are willing to take over the bond debt with it which smaller cities may or may not want, may or may not be able to handle. Again this is another thing you should check into. If Conroe is providing the water/sewer delivery/processing they may have intentions of annexing the development at some time into the future. As for services police/fire/trash collection/etc. the MUD is under the County and fall under typical arrangements that unincorporated areas of the County have. The MUD can arrange with local municipalities to provide fire/police/trash collection/etc. services but it is typically at an additional cost although not always.


MUD's are like cities in themselves so whatever problems a city can have so too can the MUD. The MUD will have a Board of Directors (BOD) similar to a City Council and they will run themselves within the parameters of Texas laws as to what they can do. During the development the builder typically has a major part of control on that BOD. Any legal counsel needed may be provided and paid for by the MUD or provided by the developer.


Most of what was described above would be a MUD in an unincorporated part of a county. However MUD's can be created within a municipalities "City Limits" or "Extra Territorial Jurisdiction" (ETJ). When I searched properties in the development they were showing a City of Conroe tax so this may be one of those cases and why I was not seeing any water towers "Poop Plants" and the notes in the City of Conroe's meeting notes. The main difference here are your services (fire, police, trash, etc.) are most likely provided by Conroe. It is not clear how much more the City has a hand in the MUD.





You should keep in mind that the MUD is not just an entity but also the residents are the MUD. If anything happens financially with the MUD it is typically on the residents. These are some important points to consider and research.

• During the build if anything were to happen with the developer, or more common the corporation the developer creates for that development build, and they go under you are now on the hook for the bonds that have been sold and used to build the infrastructure. That would include for areas/phases of the development not yet built out but infrastructure was installed. You should keep an eye not only that but if they are selling homes and the pace. Part of the BOD's function should be monitoring this so they can tell where the MUD stands in this area.
• Was a separate corporation created by the developer just for this development? If so and they bankrupt it are there any provisions in place to protect the residents from assuming the costs of infrastructure installed but not used? You would be surprised how much it costs to perform the dirt work and then installation of the infrastructure for a phase of the development.
• During the development build oversight will be performed on the infrastructure and preparation of the lots and common areas before builders buy to build. How much oversight was performed and who did the oversight? Also what records were preserved/provided to the BOD for future use? It does not matter whether it was State oversight for the water/waste systems or other aspects under State or others watch the truth is the State/other WILL NOT typically have a person on site overseeing it to ensure they followed all required regulations. Not unlike building a home the developer will be trusted to have their own people (Engineers, etc.) perform the oversight and formally report to the State/other with mostly minimal inspections by the State/other. Building a bad home affects the one homeowner but building a bad MUD infrastructure affects all homeowners.
• How much is the City of Conroe involved in the maintenance of the infrastructure? Given what was found, especially with City taxes being collected, I would fully expect that they have taken over all maintenance responsibilities. But that would be part of any agreement the MUD has with the City and would be important to know.
• Does the City have any plans to annex the development and if so when? If it is prior to bonds being paid off then how will that affect your MUD taxes? Will they go down as the assumption cost is spread around to all city residents or will there be some maneuver to maintain your MUD tax until the bonds are paid off?
• Your development is very large 4000+ homes. The City of Conroe should have taken that into account if your water and sewer is being processed by them. However the City's current systems might not have been capable of handling that amount of added homes. How was that factored in by the City if that was the case? Were MUD bonds used to expand or create new facilities to handle this? If not then the City may need to go out with their own bonds to expand their facilities. Where is that money coming from? That could increase your costs if they bump City taxes up to do this. I would expect they spread the cost around to all residents of the City which typically doesn't go over well. On the other hand if they were able to use MUD bond money to expand or build plants and attach other developments onto them then you could be financing others outside of your development with your MUD tax. There are laws in place maybe to prevent this but with anything else there are typically legal ways to circumvent the law.

Lots of unanswered questions when you walk into a MUD situation. Perform your due diligence as it can be a really big surprise later!

[jeffdoorgunner]

Originally Posted by jphripjah

Any concerns, rumors, etc. in the neighborhood?

I saw a news article about plans to build a church across from the elementary school but nothing else about what the plans are for retail amenities.

Mostly positive from most. I have been told eventually its expected to have restaurants and shopping,similar to the woodlands.

[LocalPlanner]

Originally Posted by jeffdoorgunner

Mostly positive from most. I have been told eventually its expected to have restaurants and shopping,similar to the woodlands.

The Woodlands Hills will be much smaller in total population than The Woodlands, so don't expect a whole downtown like The Woodlands has - unless the surrounding area also gets a huge amount of residential development. I would expect some nice neighborhood / community-level retail and services. Think of the Creekside Village area of The Woodlands as a model.

[jeffdoorgunner]

Originally Posted by LocalPlanner

The Woodlands Hills will be much smaller in total population than The Woodlands, so don't expect a whole downtown like The Woodlands has - unless the surrounding area also gets a huge amount of residential development. I would expect some nice neighborhood / community-level retail and services. Think of the Creekside Village area of The Woodlands as a model.

That’s a good thing as far as I’m concerned, If I want the woodlands vibe…….its only a 20 minute drive.