No cash bail, coming 01JAN 2023. (tax, to live, quality)

[Cool Arrow]

Originally Posted by Caglee

Why? Bail is both a guarantee that you will show up to court and not flee the state, as well as a means to keep offenders segregated from society so they can't continue to commit crime. I also don't know why you're discussing California in an Illinois forum, I don't care what California is doing.

This system has worked just fine for hundreds of years. It seems like a certain political party can never just leave things alone.

System has worked fine for hundreds of years? Is this a joke? We have the highest incarceration rate in the world. Dictatorships like China jail less people than we do.

[Master Jay]

Cool Arrow,

Good morning.

I think I am going to agree with your first statement that we have such a high incarceration rate.

But we need to think, WHY might a dictatorship like China have a less jail problem?.. Sadly, ONE reason might be that they give people a reason to fear going to jail on certain offenses?!? I don't know, but it seems that jail is not a deterrent for a lot of people in our country.

Hopefully we figure this situation out in our generation.

[karlsch]

Originally Posted by Master Jay

Cool Arrow,

Good morning.

I think I am going to agree with your first statement that we have such a high incarceration rate.

But we need to think, WHY might a dictatorship like China have a less jail problem?.. Sadly, ONE reason might be that they give people a reason to fear going to jail on certain offenses?!? I don't know, but it seems that jail is not a deterrent for a lot of people in our country.

Hopefully we figure this situation out in our generation.

East Asian people are more law-abiding by nature. Even the diaspora. Just look at the low crime rate for Chinese-Americans.

[Kmanshouse]

There is an unfortunate elephant in the room here.

The highest crime rates are in cities with a large proportionate, low income AA population. This is just a fact. Whenever you see the cities list, this should jump out. Baltimore, NOLA, St. Louis, Detroit, Flint, Milwaukee, Memphis, etc. etc.

Chicago's murders are roughly 70% black on black, and they comprise about 1/3 of the city's population.

No judgment, and there are reasons that go back a long time in our history.

Quit making this about party or policies. This is about our American culture as developed over 200+ years into what it is today.

[Mathguy]

Originally Posted by Cool Arrow

System has worked fine for hundreds of years? Is this a joke? We have the highest incarceration rate in the world. Dictatorships like China jail less people than we do.

I agree that some reform is needed.

The problem is that judges in Illinois have already shown that they will not keep dangerous and violent offenders in jail and the new laws make that very hard to do.

So, what is actually going to happen is that a bunch of very dangerous folks are going to get a revolving door and there is going to be a surge in street justice and crime. The people that this going to end up helping by not jailing people that can't make bail will be mostly poorer and minority...the people it's going to hurt with more robberies, beatings and shootings will be the same.

[MKTwet]

Basically no cash bail means that your government has given up on costly jail system, hiring a lot of police to maintain correctional facilities, feeding and dealing with the welfare of the accused. It’s expensive.

Bail was never meant to reduce crime, it became a system of holding the accused and usually like detention it kept criminals off the street until they get to speak to a judge and usually the time they serve pays for the crime or they are held even longer and many low offense criminals came out even poorer as a result of being repeatedly locked up for minor offenses.

What usually end up happening now with states with no cash bail is the criminals are no longer locked up and held. So it’s up to the public to deal with them. So they become vagrants on the street piling up more crime until a serious offense like murder or rape happens then they are locked up without bail. And these criminals would have built up a long rap sheet. Nice right?

Another result is many criminals get killed by other criminals.

The whole point of the cashless bail system is to reduce government spending on the enterprise of locking up criminals. The end result is the public has to be prepared and defend against criminals waiting for trial and nothing will be done by law enforcement to thwart crime.

Elections matter, tell whoever you are going to vote what are they going to do about the tidal wave of crime?

[2sleepy]

Originally Posted by MKTwet

Basically no cash bail means that your government has given up on costly jail system, hiring a lot of police to maintain correctional facilities, feeding and dealing with the welfare of the accused. It’s expensive.

Bail was never meant to reduce crime, it became a system of holding the accused and usually like detention it kept criminals off the street until they get to speak to a judge and usually the time they serve pays for the crime or they are held even longer and many low offense criminals came out even poorer as a result of being repeatedly locked up for minor offenses.

What usually end up happening now with states with no cash bail is the criminals are no longer locked up and held. So it’s up to the public to deal with them. So they become vagrants on the street piling up more crime until a serious offense like murder or rape happens then they are locked up without bail. And these criminals would have built up a long rap sheet. Nice right?

Another result is many criminals get killed by other criminals.

The whole point of the cashless bail system is to reduce government spending on the enterprise of locking up criminals. The end result is the public has to be prepared and defend against criminals waiting for trial and nothing will be done by law enforcement to thwart crime.

Elections matter, tell whoever you are going to vote what are they going to do about the tidal wave of crime?

I think the idea of bail reform is that more and more people are becoming aware of the inequity of only people who have substantial amounts of money being able to get out of jail. There is no reason to believe that people who can't afford bail become 'vagrants on the street', most have homes and jobs and in many cases children - all of which they can lose if they can't post bail and get out of jail.

[MKTwet]

Originally Posted by 2sleepy

I think the idea of bail reform is that more and more people are becoming aware of the inequity of only people who have substantial amounts of money being able to get out of jail. There is no reason to believe that people who can't afford bail become 'vagrants on the street', most have homes and jobs and in many cases children - all of which they can lose if they can't post bail and get out of jail.

This is one of the inequalities but I think it's the system that does not provide any type of support system to keep returning offenders the main problem.

I've been to court multiple times where someone on trial could not afford bail even when the judge gives the lowest possible penalty. However the offender has already been had a long rap sheet and brought back again.

So, is it good to keep these people in jail? For the victims, absolutely yes. But usually these criminals are very open with their problems they have no other means to live or survive. The end result is the judge has to call out the prosecutor to push for clemency. This is all a waste of time and resources while the offender is freed and will be caught and brought back again.

There is no support system for criminals other than give them a few referrals for services.

So it's not about inequality it's about the lack of government services to rehab and reform criminals.

Yet, we look at the welfare of the criminals and not even focus on the welfare of the victims.

Who's looking out for the tax payers who are being victimized by the criminals and that government who refuse to serve and protect the tax payers.

[Cool Arrow]

Originally Posted by Kmanshouse

There is an unfortunate elephant in the room here.

The highest crime rates are in cities with a large proportionate, low income AA population. This is just a fact. Whenever you see the cities list, this should jump out. Baltimore, NOLA, St. Louis, Detroit, Flint, Milwaukee, Memphis, etc. etc.

Chicago's murders are roughly 70% black on black, and they comprise about 1/3 of the city's population.

No judgment, and there are reasons that go back a long time in our history.

Quit making this about party or policies. This is about our American culture as developed over 200+ years into what it is today.

Chicago's low income AA population has been decreasing steadily yet the violent crime rates continue to rise. I do think it's a uniquely American phenomenon because if you adjust numbers of similar population in canadian or english cities their violent crime numbers are still a fraction of american cities. The poorest and roughest neighborhoods in Toronto or Montreal are Mayberry compared to the roughest hoods in Detroit or Cleveland.

[2sleepy]

Originally Posted by MKTwet

This is one of the inequalities but I think it's the system that does not provide any type of support system to keep returning offenders the main problem.

I've been to court multiple times where someone on trial could not afford bail even when the judge gives the lowest possible penalty. However the offender has already been had a long rap sheet and brought back again.

So, is it good to keep these people in jail? For the victims, absolutely yes. But usually these criminals are very open with their problems they have no other means to live or survive. The end result is the judge has to call out the prosecutor to push for clemency. This is all a waste of time and resources while the offender is freed and will be caught and brought back again.

There is no support system for criminals other than give them a few referrals for services.

So it's not about inequality it's about the lack of government services to rehab and reform criminals.

Yet, we look at the welfare of the criminals and not even focus on the welfare of the victims.

Who's looking out for the tax payers who are being victimized by the criminals and that government who refuse to serve and protect the tax payers.

What kind of support system would you like to see? Most of the jurisdictions utilizing a system like this keep dangerous predators in jail and deny them release with or without bail which is a big improvement over the current system that allows child molesters to be out of jail in an hour because they have the money to post bail. Defendants who are not an immediate danger are usually released on ankle monitor or mandated house arrest. Beyond that I don't know what you can do, do you?