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TLDR; Your information is mostly wrong with very few correct points. I agree that we need border security. I think that it is more important that some form of reality-based and market/economy-tied immigration reform be implemented soon.
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Originally Posted by 9162
Immigrants who come here with no education, are often a drain on society, and the economy.
This is false. Low skill foreign labor is not a drain on the economy, but rather still at the foundation of manufacturing, agriculture, and even some of the service sector.
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Understand, when immigrants came to the U.S. years ago, there was no welfare, AFDC benefits, food stamps, section 8 housing, heating assistance, WIC programs, free healthcare, free ESL classes, free interpreters, affirmative action, special hiring quotas, etc.
Mostly false. The largest and most expensive entitlement programs (welfare and medicare) are closed to non-us-citizens. Immigrant laborers, even, illegal ones, often still have these taxes deducted from their pay, even though they are ineligible for the benefits. Everything else you list (ESL classes, interpreters, WIC) put not even the tiniest dent in federal and state budgets. Either you are ignorant of the finances of the country, or you are willfully scapegoating a population for other reasons.
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Immigrants also dump millions of kids each year into our school system, who often don't speak English, requiring multi-language teachers which are a particular drain on tax payers, as well as requiring more and more teachers to begin with. Kids of immigrants often grow up impoverished. Subsidies cost money, and a republican administration doesn't want to pay for them, the democrats, as well, usually understand the strain they put on budgets. There are very limited job opportunities for people with little, or no skills, and those jobs often pay very little.
This is true. Immigrant children from cultures that do not place a high value on education certainly are a significant drain on the educational system. They generally lag behind their peers in educational attainment. However, this idea that there are no jobs for those with low skill sets is completely false.
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We have been lied to, when liberals imply immigrants do the jobs other Americans won't do; there is no such thing as a job an American won't do. The problem is, these are the jobs that do not pay enough to allow someone to survive (immigrant or otherwise) without subsidies.
Like it or not, our society is built atop a foundation of low-wage labor. What we can't manufacture cheaply, ourselves, we import. If you "pay enough to allow someone to survive" all those jobs will immediately move offshore and/or prices will rise so quickly. In either case, our consumer economy implodes. Here's two quick routes to collapsing our nation into a deep depression:
- Central planners raise the minimum wage to "allow someone to survive."
- Central planners eliminate the pool of cheap labor.
In order to avoid collapsing the economy, here are two pathways open to us:
- Subsidize low-wage American laborers through welfare.
- Continue to allow the import low-wage foreign laborers.
You can stick your head in the sand and insist everyone can be paid a living wage, and the druggie vagrant on the street will be out picking beets tomorrow if you offer him $20/hour, but that's living in fantasy land.
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Our prison systems as well, have numerous inmates born on foreign soil, many who couldn't adapt, or refused to adapt to living in a capitalist country. Now, the American tax payer has to pay for them to be incarcerated, with free legal, and healthcare. Prisons are also very expensive for tax payers.
Immigrants--including illegal immigrants--offend at lower rates than native-born Americans. This is an indisputable fact.
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Many people, particularly refugees, are more than aware of all the freebees available to them, they know, they will be "taken care of."
The amount of refugees America imports is so low that it hardly matters.
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Also, consider the traffic congestion experienced in urban areas, with more and more cars, which equals more and more pollution.
And more economic activity. It's a double-edged sword. We did a good job of reducing pollution and congestion when we nearly collapsed the economy during the 2008 recession. It doesn't matter if it's citizens or immigrants generating it, pollution is pollution.
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Our landfills are overflowing, with recycling only answering a small portion of dealing with ever increasing trash and waste. The cost of real estate as well, and its scarcity indicates the issue of supply and demand. Many urban areas have become too expensive for younger generations to survive.
Eliminating or reducing immigration will not solve this problem. Immigrants are the ones building new houses.
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Sadly, our elite colleges and universities as well, are guilty of preferring foreign students, supposedly, in the name of diversity. Our nations Ivy League colleges/Universities recruit foreign students under the guise of "diversity" rather than admit fully competent, well qualified American students with high GPA's. Having a 4.0 GPA, with outstanding SAT scores means little. Your gender, ethnicity, and if you are from a foreign country are what matters.
This is 100% bull****. American students are given preference over foreigners at universities, even though they bring in less revenue and have generally lower scores on admissions testing. Just compare the output of our educational system to those of other countries. Our children are simply not competetive enough, because our culture does not place as much value on education as do others'.
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Top colleges know, that many families overseas are looking to use admission into an Ivy League school as a vehicle to legally immigrate to the U.S.
You don't know what you're talking about. There is NO pathway to citizenship through college. You can get a student visa, but it is temporary and does not convert to LPR status. You need to get a job and an H-Visa for that. H-Visa caps are so low, that foreign students are extremely unlikely to be able to attain one.
What is really going on is that Chinese millionairs are paying $1M into US companies, to be placed into a lottery for "Investor Visas" which allow them to bring over their family. They buy houses near good West-Coast colleges and send their over-achieving kids to school in order to get a degree from an American University.
If, before the child turns 21, their lottery number comes up, then they can stay in the country and their child can get a high-paying white-collar job. If they do not get the investor visa, then the chid returns to China (or wherever) and has their pick of jobs, again due to their American degree.
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There are literally thousands of American kids that are fully qualified to go to these schools, many with the means to afford them, that will be unable to go, simply because of who they are, or that they were born here.
Completely untrue. American children are advantaged by having been born here. It's one of the many reasons you see so many tourists and illegals desperate to have their children on American soil.
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Top companies also realize they can often pay foreign students less money, than an American graduate for the same job.
There is some truth in this, in terms of H-visa workers. They are essentially indentured high-tech slaves. The best solution to this would be to force/allow workers to sponsor their own H-visa (they pay their own fees) and then port that visa from job-to-job. Also putting a time limit on H-visas which then automatically convert to LPR's after 2-to-5 years of continual employment (allowing for small gaps for job changes).
Right now, getting fired while on an H-Visa makes you instantly "illegal" (an overstay) as the visa is only valid until your last day of employment. Employers gleefully hold this over the heads of their H-visa workers and thus hold down wages due to artificial government interference. I am opposed to increasing the H-visa cap until this problem is rectified. If we were to increase the H-visa cap to what employers desire, we would be giving them a vehicle to artifically depress wages, against what the free market dictates.
Finally, I'm also against "open borders" policies. I'm for securing the border, ports, and visa system through reasonable effective means including physical barriers.
I want to see an increase in legal immigration avenues, market/economy-tied quotas, and a pathway to citizenship for both low-and-high-skill labor (other than family-based immigration).
You're asking for poverty, maybe civil wars, and not enough food or water to go around. Yes, you've got a big country, but a whole load of it isn't habitable, without the support of other habitable parts.
Maybe you can start importing more goods, but then those would need paying for.
As the title suggests I am advocating that we the USA should greatly increase immigration. America should triple its rate of immigration. Why?
1. To secure a better future for Americans
The addition of more American's would open up opportunities on all fronts for a better life. We have the benefit of a massive country. We don't need to give up any federal land to do this. We need to find a way to revitalize the rustbelt and those cities. If we had more immigration to the heartland we could turn back on the lights in Cleveland, Detroit, Milwaukee etc. We could have more options in great places to live, and an even stronger economy to do everything. We could have an even larger federal budget without having to increase taxes due to a larger population base. Imagine the things we could do in space if NASA had twice the budget? There is a reason that Canada loses its population to the USA. There is a reason that Europe cannot compete with us. It's because we are a larger better united body of people and we should capitalize on it.
2. To protect a better world order
America is a decently strong world power. However in the future age we will be competing against China & India. The Asian countries have a massive advantage considering that half of the world's population lives there. In order to ensure that we can compete in the new age on all fronts we should become an even larger.
It would be feasible and likely a benefit to triple our rate of legal immigration...if we are able to stop illegal immigration. In my mind all of the arguments on either side of the immigration debate, even the ones concerning what to do with those that are already here, are senseless unless we stop illegal immigration, like just about every other country in the world. IMHO
Tech, medical, energy and R&D will make this country great. Problem is, USA do not produce much professionals like engineers, doctors, scientists etc... American college students take some liberal arts, sports managements and those non sense courses Most of the STEM graduates in American universities are international students.
I would advocate exactly the opposite.....let's cut off all immigration for a while and let the dust settle. Then allow in only those who can contribute to this country and who are bringing in assets with them.
No let's not. Not their country anymore.....never was. Just a bunch of nomadic tribes wandering around killing and enslaving each other. They should thank us for taking charge of it.....
Population is a major determining factor which is why there are only going to be 3 powerful countries in the future - USA, China & India. If population didn't matter then why is tiny Switzerland irrelevant? Why are Australia & New Zealand irrelevant? Why is Canada irrelevant? We have a much large mostly successful population and so we can use that to great advantage. Those weaker large population countries have figured out that capitalism works and they won't stay weak any longer. America needs to grow or become more irrelevant like the Europeans. Even they know that they are irrelevant which is why the want to form a United States of Europe so that they could compete.
The size of the market is still the largest determining factor. The market is still really about selling stuff to humans. The amount of humans is what makes the USA such a great market. We all speak English, we all fall under the same government. It's much better than in most other places of the world that speak multiple languages and have many governments. And before I hear about the Latinos not speaking English, this is simply a blip. Latinos just like every form of immigrants before lose their language just like everyone else.
Yes, large populations lead to greater international prestige but at the cost of lower quality of life for the individual. China is simultaneously the second largest economy in the world and one of the poorest nations in the world with a horrible quality of life because of its enormous population. Try going outside in any major city in China and it's hazardous to your health.
In contrast Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Scotland and Switzerland all enjoy high living standards, generous social safety net benefits and great quality of life specifically because they have small and stable populations. North Sea oil helps for many of those as well but the idea is the same. France, Britain and Germany despite being neighbors to those countries all suffer many more problems because of larger populations and immigration.
Try an experiment leading 3 different groups: Over 5 days, teach one group of 3 friends to perform a complex technical task with which they are completely unfamiliar with but you are. Then do the same thing again with 3 different friends and add in 97 strangers. Then do it again with another 100 people, this time each day adding 20 new people who speak a different language. Which group do you think will be more proficient at the end of 5 days? Which group will have more conflict and difficulty?
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Most of the STEM graduates in American universities are international students. 
but the idea is the same. France, Britain and Germany despite being neighbors to those countries all suffer many more problems because of larger populations and immigration. 
