Anyone moved to Texas and moved back to LA? (Bell: 2015, houses)

[RMESMH]

Originally Posted by saibot

Not very much. People confuse "illegal immigrants" with "the homeless/vagrants," but most illegal immigrants are not homeless vagrants. There are many Spanish-speaking people in most parts of California (and Texas) and more often than you think, you will not have a clue that they are undocumented.

I'm in favor of a secure border and controlled immigration for a number of reasons but the undocumented people who are working at menial jobs which need to be done are actually positively impacting the daily lives of citizens.

That said, I would not choose to live in a neighborhood that was known to have a large number of illegal immigrants. The reason is that because of the cost of housing, they tend to squeeze as many people as possible into a single house, so there is lots of coming and going at all hours of the day, and it can be loud at night. And when many people are sharing a house, the routine maintenance and cleanup are often neglected because it's no one person's responsibility. We've had this happen a couple of times in our neighborhood and although the people were perfectly friendly and nice, the loud parties, children running through the streets at night, and litter tossed around got old fast. And when they finally left (foreclosed/evicted), the houses were trashed and had to be completely gutted.

I haven't been to Austin but LA traffic is pretty bad. Over time you figure out alternative routes and tricks to get around the worst places, but even those don't work sometimes.

They aren't positively affecting the lives of citizens who have been crowded out of some of those jobs, and if you really believe what you are saying you have a very wide view of what is menial.

[Gaylord_Focker]

Originally Posted by FueledByBlueBell

To answer others, I haven't lived in LA but my office is there. I'm wondering about people who moved to Texas thinking it would be better, but missed California and moved back. I'm curious to know what they didn't like about Texas and what they missed about California. Thanks y'all!

Weather. Politics. Scenery. Access to Vegas and west coast.

[saibot]

Originally Posted by RMESMH

They aren't positively affecting the lives of citizens who have been crowded out of some of those jobs, and if you really believe what you are saying you have a very wide view of what is menial.

There are indeed many undocumented workers who are working at important jobs that no US citizen wants. It's not just in California, either. Some years ago, people in central Washington complained that undocumented migrants were picking fruit and why weren't the jobs offered to US-born teens instead. So attempts were made to hire US-born young people, but the experiment was abandoned in a very short time as none of the teens would stay on the job longer than one day.

No one down here in California wants to go out in the fields and pick strawberries except illegal immigrants.

[RMESMH]

Originally Posted by saibot

There are indeed many undocumented workers who are working at important jobs that no US citizen wants. It's not just in California, either. Some years ago, people in central Washington complained that undocumented migrants were picking fruit and why weren't the jobs offered to US-born teens instead. So attempts were made to hire US-born young people, but the experiment was abandoned in a very short time as none of the teens would stay on the job longer than one day.

No one down here in California wants to go out in the fields and pick strawberries except illegal immigrants.

That U.S. citizens don’t want at the pay that is being offered….which isn’t the same thing as what you wrote.

Employers shouldn’t have the option of paying what they feel like paying just because they can get someone to work for that amount who isn’t here legally.

IMO, other that one’s family and friends who may not be U.S. citizens, Americans should care about the welfare of every U.S. citizen before they care about the welfare anyone who isn’t a U.S. citizen.

And I’d be willing to pay extra for products re the increased costs that that would add.

[smpliving]

Originally Posted by FueledByBlueBell

To answer others, I haven't lived in LA but my office is there. I'm wondering about people who moved to Texas thinking it would be better, but missed California and moved back. I'm curious to know what they didn't like about Texas and what they missed about California. Thanks y'all!

The people I know who moved from the LA metro (Ventura County) to Texas and back to California did so because they preferred the weather and overall location. However they already owned a home in CA before moving to TX that they rented out until they had the opportunity to move back to CA years later. In all cases, they moved to TX for advancement in their careers with the companies/institutions they worked for.

[As Above So Below...]

Originally Posted by RMESMH

And I’d be willing to pay extra for products re the increased costs that that would add.

To be perfectly frank, most Americans would not.

Undocumented immigrants contribute a lot but they also cost a lot. I live in a city with heaps of them and I must admit its not all bad having them around. I was able to go to Home Depot and have all my mother in laws stuff unpacked and put where it needed to go in my house for less than $200. A moving company we called wanted $800 (It was a 25 foot truck). But they also do use resources. The problem is that no one is willing to have an honest conversation about them. The right wants to pretend they do nothing but take jobs and commit crimes and the left wants to pretend there is no problem at the border.

As for jobs for they are supposedly "taking", Id direct anyone who truly thinks so to the meat packing plants in West Texas and Western Kansas. They pay very well, however NOBODY wants to do the jobs. Americans would rather make half of what they pay to not have to work in a packing plant. As a result, the positions are filled almost entirely by refugees and people from third world countries. So this idea that Americans would be willing to do work if people just paid more doesn't always stack up.

[saibot]

Originally Posted by RMESMH

That U.S. citizens don’t want at the pay that is being offered….which isn’t the same thing as what you wrote.

Employers shouldn’t have the option of paying what they feel like paying just because they can get someone to work for that amount who isn’t here legally.

IMO, other that one’s family and friends who may not be U.S. citizens, Americans should care about the welfare of every U.S. citizen before they care about the welfare anyone who isn’t a U.S. citizen.

And I’d be willing to pay extra for products re the increased costs that that would add.

Everything you say is logical and fair and impossible to disagree with, but unfortunately it clashes with reality.

I challenge you to research how much you would have to pay US citizens to get them to work 8-10 hours a day outside in the sun, bending over to pick strawberries. $50 an hour? Even at that price you might find people who were wiling to try it once, but not willing to continue.

Certainly no one will do it for minimum wage, which is already a fairly generous $15/hour.

[DabOnEm]

Originally Posted by saibot

Everything you say is logical and fair and impossible to disagree with, but unfortunately it clashes with reality.

I challenge you to research how much you would have to pay US citizens to get them to work 8-10 hours a day outside in the sun, bending over to pick strawberries. $50 an hour? Even at that price you might find people who were wiling to try it once, but not willing to continue.

Certainly no one will do it for minimum wage, which is already a fairly generous $15/hour.

Lets see $50 an hour (so roughly $96k) to pick strawberries for 8 hours in the heat or work a comfy WFH job where I can do physical activity on my own time. The choice is easy.

[FueledByBlueBell]

Ok, so now that we've had time to debate immigration- is there anyone that was disappointed in their move to Texas and found that LA/SoCal wasn't so bad? Ideally, someone that can buy a house in LA/SoCal for $1-1.6m (I realize what this gets you).

[As Above So Below...]

Originally Posted by FueledByBlueBell

Ok, so now that we've had time to debate immigration- is there anyone that was disappointed in their move to Texas and found that LA/SoCal wasn't so bad? Ideally, someone that can buy a house in LA/SoCal for $1-1.6m (I realize what this gets you).

For me it was the opposite. I came to Texas with low expectations and I ended up loving it.