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17 year old seems to have some type of narcissism disorder and has gone off the rails. Wants to come and go as she pleases without boundaries and has started hanging out with strangers outside her normal circle. She's had no traumatic experience and has had a very normal upbringing and family life. She acknowledges she has no empathy and simply doesn't care. Impossible to reason with her since everything comes back to "I don't care". Her grades and school attendance have tanked over the last year. No apparent drug issues other than alcohol, but even that seems modest. We have never seen her noticeably "drunk". We are not very strict parents and have done everything possible for her. What can one do when they're so close to 18 and tell you they're going to leave home as soon as they turn 18? I feel like we will never see or hear from her again. It's incredibly sad.
Wish her good luck.
There's nothing you can do to change her. She's at an age where she is pretty much 100% in control over what she will and will not do. Hopefully, she's been raised right, and will get back on track. And hopefully, sooner rather than later.
OP, would she agree to getting evaluated? If her grades have tanked and she doesn't care about anything, I wonder if she's depressed. You could present the psych eval option as checking the possibility of depression, without mentioning that a personality disorder eval would be part of it.
Serious mental health issues can suddenly crop up in the 17-21 age-range, roughly. I've seen that in college dorms; parents drop off a happy, seemingly well-adjusted kid at the dorms for the beginning of their freshman year, then some time later, it's like a hidden time bomb goes off, and the student needs to be hospitalized. These are mysterious cases that defy explanation. Your daughter may not be in that severe category, but clearly something's going on.
She stated herself, that she has no empathy. That's an indication. She may agree to an evaluation simply out of curiosity, to learn more about her own symptoms, like that lack of empathy.
Can you think of any statements or behaviors she displayed at a younger age (middle school, say, or earlier) that might now in hindsight be seen as precursors to the present situation?
I'd be inclined to do whatever possible for her while she's still under 18 and in your custody. Good luck, and please let us know how things develop.
17 year old seems to have some type of narcissism disorder and has gone off the rails. Wants to come and go as she pleases without boundaries and has started hanging out with strangers outside her normal circle. She's had no traumatic experience and has had a very normal upbringing and family life. She acknowledges she has no empathy and simply doesn't care. Impossible to reason with her since everything comes back to "I don't care". Her grades and school attendance have tanked over the last year. No apparent drug issues other than alcohol, but even that seems modest. We have never seen her noticeably "drunk". We are not very strict parents and have done everything possible for her. What can one do when they're so close to 18 and tell you they're going to leave home as soon as they turn 18? I feel like we will never see or hear from her again. It's incredibly sad.
Seems you already have the answers, you just aren't paying attention to them.
1. She's 17. In a year she'll be of legal age to be 100% independent of her parents, if she wants, and nothing you can do to stop her. She's actually starting her rebellion phase late - most teenage girls start at around 14-15.
2. You've done everything possible for her. That means you haven't let her do much for herself. You should've started teaching her to be independent from the moment she hit puberty. You apparently didn't.
3. Many parents have learned: the #1 gift you can give to your children, is to teach them how to be independent adults and leave you to live their lives.
It's a topsy turvy world. She's not in the world you were in when you were 17.
Although I can't blame you for it, first off when kids go off the rails I blame beatin' deficient childhoods for stuff like that - it is not always the reason, though. Children are born 100% oblivious to human society and need to somehow be made totally aware of and capable to deal with what awaits them in life beyond the cradle. One way a responsible parent does this is an occasional "you won't forget it" episode best carried out sometime before 10 or so. A strap across the legs (until they clog dance in place) is a good time honored way to accomplish them learning (and not forgetting) a lesson to be learned (but somehow, learning it seems to have been elusive). A little drama helps, too (if you're not sure how that works, watch Mommie Dearest; it's overdone in that movie, but you get the point). An otherwise "tightly wound" household (kids have some responsibility; and responsible behavior is expected - or else!) works too - it must be established by the time they are 5 or so. If you start that business at 12 they will never accept it.
Irregardless, at 17 all kids are at the peak of what looks like rebelliousness. But she's 17 and you are still responsible for her. On your own, you are REQUIRED to (one way or another) find out who she's hanging around with. So they're a different bunch - you can't judge it until you see it. Oh, they'll be different but different in what way? That's for you to find out. Put it in your schedule.
Last edited by TwinbrookNine; 04-02-2024 at 07:28 PM..
One way a responsible parent does this is an occasional "you won't forget it" episode best carried out sometime before 10 or so. A strap across the legs (until they clog dance in place) is a good time honored way to accomplish them learning (and not forgetting) a lesson to be learned (but somehow, learning it seems to have been elusive). A little drama helps, too (if you're not sure how that works, watch Mommie Dearest; it's overdone in that movie, but you get the point).
As others have said, possibly depression. As you said, possibly other mental health issues. Has she seen a psychologist? This seems like a kid who needs mental health help, not to be turned loose on the world like this in a year.
17 year old seems to have some type of narcissism disorder and has gone off the rails. Wants to come and go as she pleases without boundaries and has started hanging out with strangers outside her normal circle. She's had no traumatic experience and has had a very normal upbringing and family life. She acknowledges she has no empathy and simply doesn't care. Impossible to reason with her since everything comes back to "I don't care". Her grades and school attendance have tanked over the last year. No apparent drug issues other than alcohol, but even that seems modest. We have never seen her noticeably "drunk". We are not very strict parents and have done everything possible for her. What can one do when they're so close to 18 and tell you they're going to leave home as soon as they turn 18? I feel like we will never see or hear from her again. It's incredibly sad.
I suspect that you can't be certain as to whether she has no empathy, or just no empathy for you.
Are you giving her an allowance? Or paying for her phone? Or her car? Could you cut off funding unless she sees a therapist/counselor?
And, by the way, have you ever asked her: Why this sudden change?
She wants to leave at 18, really not unusual. Help her get all the skills she needs to survive. Is she working? Does she have a car? Savings? She may think differently six months from now. But it's her life and she's almost an adult. Good luck.
Child ABUSE is failing to teach a kid how to act, who to listen to, who NOT to...and so they go off and have a screwed up life and wind up regretting every stinking minute of it..
THAT'S CHILD ABUSE, babe!!!
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