Do Mexicans speak Castillian Spanish? (hotel, dorms, theatres, landlord)

[soymabelen]

Originally Posted by Dusty Rhodes

As I understand it, Castillian Spanish came about because there was once (OK, maybe more than once, but at least one in particular) a Spanish King with a lisp (rumor also has it that he was....well....as it is sometimes said "de la izquierda") and, as those in the court often do, they mimic-ed the actions and mannerisms of their king. Most modern day south or central american, or Mexican males would not intentionally sound like some Spanish gay dude.

Please, go back and read post #27 in this thread where this FALSE myth is explained.

[soymabelen]

Originally Posted by ArizonaBear

Very true: Spain has several 'Spanish' languages yet the one tagged as Spanish the world over is Castillian-------not Catalon, Basque, etc.

There are historical reasons why Castillian ended up being the language to be spoken throughout what is now modern day Spain. It is known as Spanish, even though it is not the only language spoken in Spain, because it is the one unifying language in the country.

[soymabelen]

Originally Posted by alxtronics

"Coger" without any nasty connotation means "to grab" either in Mexico or Spain. Giving the word a sexual connotation means "to copulate" again in both countries. The difference resides that in Spain those words are used with that naughty meanning commonly on radio and tv programs while in Mexico not.

"Coger" does not have sexual connotations in Spain, therefore you will not hear it used as such in the media. You will hear it used everywhere with the common meaning of to grab, take or catch, as in "coger el taxi o el metro, coger un resfriado, coger la maleta" etc.

[soymabelen]

Originally Posted by Bixaorellana

I can't believe that some people are posting educated, intelligent answers here -- thank you, Soymabelen and a couple of others -- and people who obviously know far less are ignoring them.

In Mexico, if someone is being dense he's likely to have "What's the matter, don't you understand Castilian?!" hissed at him. This is exactly the way a person in the US might hear, "Don't you understand plain English?!", a phrase that wouldn't be amiss in this thread.

There seems to be an undercurrent from a few people that Spanish from Spain is "nicer" than Mexican Spanish. That is no more true than English in England being better than that in the US, for instance. I learned Spanish in Madrid as a child, but now Mexican Spanish is the one that sounds correct to me. The positive legacy of learning madrileño Spanish is that I spell rather well, since I know where the Cs and Zs are, something not always discernible when listening to Mexican Spanish.

Thank you for the credit. I completely agree with you. I already stated that regional variety is not a factor in how correct a speaker's Spanish is in my view. It is so frustrating to see so much misinformation about this subject!

[Nosferatu]

Originally Posted by CLTKing

Mexicans speak Spanish, but not the Castilian version. All Spanish speaking countries speak the same language, but we all have our own versions. However, a person from Mexico will not have any problems understanding a Spaniard or Venezuelan. Furthermore, we all write with the same grammar. If Mexicans decide to incorporate some Nauatl words into their daily conversations, that would be consider improper Spanish, but nevertheless, it is still Spanish language.

-------------

Castilian Spanish is a Spanish dialect spoken in Valladolid, parts of Salamanca and several different regions of the Autonomous Community of Castille and Leon.

There are many dialects and languages in Spain.

Spanish Dialects:

Manchego, Castillian, Andalusian (several subdialects, some very hard to understand), Canarian (several subdialects), Aragonese, Asturian, Leonese, "Madrileño", Extremeño, Murciano, etc.

Different Languages:

Catalan and Catalan dialects (Majorcan, Tarragonese, Lleidetà, Valencian, Franja)
Fabla of Aragon (almost extinct)
Galician
Basque (more than one 100 dialects)
Aranés (a dialect of Occitan)

There's only one SPANISH. All Dialectal Variations are Spanish and are collected by the Royal Academy of the Spanish Language founded in 1713 (one Academy in every Spanish speaking country, 21 in total).

The grammatical rules and the new words of all Spanish speaking territories are gathered in the Royal Dictionary of the Spanish Language.

The purest and oldest Spanish is spoken in Colombia, South America. Also in some remote regions of Spain and Latin America.

The Spanish spoken in the Americas is older, just like the Spanish spoken in Spain 100 to 150 years ago.

Modern Spanish spoken in most of Spain is a concise and simplified language that has lost a lot of richness due to standardization and the fast pace of verbal communications in Spain. For example, the word "vale" replaces long explanations and verbal forms used in the past.

Spanish Americans speak Spanish using as an average 20 percent more words.

[joelaldo]

Originally Posted by soymabelen

let us educate ourselves and stop spreading this myth.

Number one, a lisp is the inability to pronounce the sound "s". Spaniards can and do pronounce the s sound. It is even in their country and language name "España, español". Any Spaniard, except those with a true lisp, will pronounce those words with an s sound!

I am including a link where this MYTH is explained.

History of the Spanish Language - a knol by David A. Pharies#

Myth #1: The zeta sound (unvoiced interdental fricative /θ/) entered Peninsular Spanish when the defective speech of a lisping king was imitated by the court – either because of his prestige or to avoid offending him – whence it spread to the general population. This myth is widespread among Spanish teachers in the United States and I have seen reference to it on Spanish American websites as well. Since American varieties of Spanish do not have the unvoiced interdental fricative /θ/ in their speech, its presence in Peninsular varieties is viewed as an eccentricity in need of explanation.

The myth is easy to disprove. First of all, if /θ/ arose in imitation of a lisp, how to explain that Peninsular Spanish has an /s/ phoneme? Clearly, a lisping king would not pronounce las cinco cebras ‘the five zebras’ as [las θíŋko θébras], as most Spaniards do, but as [laθ θíŋko θébraθ]. Second, historical information shows that whereas modern Spanish /s/ corresponds to Latin /s/ (sex > seis ‘six’, septem > siete ‘seven’), Spanish /θ/ corresponds to a number of Latin consonant/vowel combinations, often involving /k/ (Spoken Lat. cīnque [ki:ŋkwe] > cinco ‘five’, undecim [undekim] > once [ónθe] ‘eleven’).

English also has a /θ/ phoneme, and yet no one suggests that English speakers lisp, so the question arises as to why it is seen as aberrant in Peninsular Spanish. The answer is that it occurs in Peninsular Spanish where American Spanish speakers and English speakers expect /s/. This is obvious in the case of American Spanish, since these varieties have /s/ for /θ/ in all cases. In English, it is unexpected because Peninsular Spanish speakers use /θ/ in a number of words spelled ci- and ce- whose English equivalents are pronounced with /s/, cf. Eng. cease, cell, cement, cipher, circle, circuit, cite, and city, corresponding to Sp. cesar, célula, cifra, círculo, circuito, citar and ciudad. The cited English words are all loanwords from Old French, a language in which /s/ and the products of /ke/ and /ki/ merged as /s/.

Please, let's stop spreading the myth.

I am so happy to hear someone articulate that so clearly. Spaniards don't sound like 'maricones', they just have different pronounciations for c and z.

The reason people in LatinAmerica don't have the ceceo is because the conquistadores and later the missionaries and initial settlers all came from Andalucia and Extremaduras... and in many towns in this region, the ceceo didn't exist. They pronounced z and c like S, and it got transported to LatinAmerica. So from Argentina, to Mexico, Puerto Rico, Colombia and all places in between, there is no fricative z and c sound.

[Melchior6]

The basic answer is NO. There is difference between the way Spanish is spoken in Spain from that in Mexico and other parts of Latin America.

[zacatecana]

Originally Posted by Melchior6

The basic answer is NO. There is difference between the way Spanish is spoken in Spain from that in Mexico and other parts of Latin America.

I have no problem understanding spanish from Spain, Colombia, Puerto Rico, Cuba or any other Latin American country.

[zacatecana]

Originally Posted by Sandpointian

There is simply too much diversity within Mexico to give an unconditional answer. The Spanish of the Northeast, Coahuila and Nuevo Leon is a beautiful and technical Spanish, easily understood by everyone...perhaps the equivalent to what people say about Minnesota/Dakotas being the standard for American English.

Mexico City's Spanish has its sing-song and charm. But once you get down South, not only is the more mix with nahuatl and Maya but the the Caribbean influences of clipped ends of words becomes more prevalent. I was once in an elevator with three food service workers from three different Latin countries (Mexico, Honduras and Guatemala). Good guys but clearly illiterate. One thought "hablado" was spelled "hablao" since that was how other guys were speaking. It was funny.

My friend's grandmother is from the DR. When she gets going, it is VERY difficult to keep up as 90% of her language is clipped words, idiomatic expressions specific to the DR and sarcastic jokes! LOL! Almost like a different language. Like driving into the deep South. Like a different country.

But Madrid is hardly standard Spanish either. Every distinct.

But if I had to consider which regions of Mexico spoke the "clearest" and most technically correct Castillian, I would vote for Coahuila/NL and Guadalajara.

But just an opinion...

S.

You bring up a diffferent subject here and that is that depending on which Latin American country you are from, you will hear certain words spoken differently, not because it is their proper pronounciation but because they choose to speak this way. Words like "hablao" or "trabaja" instead of "trabajar". Some people choose to skip a letter. Like Puerto Rico, you will hear people say "Puelto". It has nothing to do with changing the language.

As far as who speaks the clearest in MX? I dont know about who speaks the clearest but I know that my biggest critics on the spanish language are and have always been chilangos. Some of them are like a thesaurus.

[zacatecana]

This is a quote from a spanish text book I have at home.

A partir de esa epoca historica, el castellano, como lengua regional inspiradora y triunfante entre todas las demas, pasara a denominarse "el espanol" por ser el idioma comunmente hablando por todos los habitantes de la Peninsula y de los paises de habla hispana. De ahi el espan~ol de cada region peninsular y de cada pais del mundo hispano adquirira poco a poco sus propias peculiaridades linguisticas y variantes regionales que se destacan hoy en dia universalmente en Espan~a, Mexico, Centroamerica, las islas del Caribe y Sudamerica.

iEscribimos en espan~ol!, Quinta Edicion 2001, by Ada Pastor de Roscoe y Joseph A. Klucas, McGraw-Hill Primis Custom Publishing, copyright 2001, Preface- Lectura Cultural.