[Cliffie]

Originally Posted by Giesela

Does anyone else feel that different parts of the state should be treated differently?


I called a few of my representatives. I post on Whitmer's fb page. Not sure how much our voices our weight have.

Politicians all work under the general assumption that anyone who contacts them about a concern represents about 100 other people who feel the same way. You get heard, even if they decide not to do what you want.

[jdhpa]

For anyone who would like to participate:

Recall Governor Whitmer
https://www.change.org/p/michigan-st...vernor-whitmer

About 170k signatures so far.

[mgkeith]

I certainly understand why people are very upset about the restrictions. I am, too, although less so than a lot of people. But...aren't you an Alaskan? Why are you involved in this issue regarding Governor Whitmer? Who do you think would be a better choice, and why?

Also, who is this John Powell who started the petition? I read the petition, and he doesn't sound very bright; unusually poor grammar. Why is he doing this?
He also claims that Whitmer is causing the virus to worsen. Huh?

[animatedmartian]

Interesting thing about that petition is that it seems to have started the same week the stay-in-home order was put in place. Anything Whitmer did since then is probably just icing for any Republican frustration.

I will say that government response in general, both state, other states, and federal, has been all over the place. Every decision seems like a knee-jerk reaction rather than a thought out plan. I don't think Whitmer did anything spectacular, but she could have done a lot more considering the role of international travel in relation to the auto industry. That being said, the car companies should have been more responsible as well. Though I expected them to put profits over health but government shouldn't be the same way.

[mgkeith]

Unfortunately, even the top epidemiologists aren't sure what measures will work best, or exactly what we are dealing with. So they are all over the place, trying everything. The stakes are high. None of them are proposing that all restrictions be loosened, though. Everyone is concerned about the economy, too. It's an extremely difficult situation to balance. No easy answers, and that is frustrating to people. We like easy, and that's what we're used to.

Even in Sweden! They do have restrictions, though not as strict as ours, and a lot of Swedes are upset about the spread of the virus and the number of deaths. They are nervous about the lack of more stringent restrictions.

I am curious about how that experiment will work.

[Giesela]

Originally Posted by keraT

She didn't spell out some of the subrules, then employers will force their employee to go to work and risk their life. It is better to stay in safer side. Its easy for us to say "why can't the low skill worker, come clean mow my lawn" but realize just as you have been home staying safe, that employee getting minimal wage wants to stay in and be safe.

Yes this is sort of hard. The people who need to work most are the lowest paid, people living on a one pay check or less margin. And if you open up some jobs many are likely to be these.
Which seems unfair to the poor. And yet, when has the world ever been fair? In the end, when this is over the poor will have suffered one way or another the most.
Not sure what the answer is.

I saw this put as: people who value the economy over lives and people who value lives over the economy.

Which is also a tiny bit unfair. If, dare I say when, the economy crashes, its going to be the poor that suffer most. And if we open up the economy and we all go out, well some more will share the risk a little more equally I guess.

I just know that we all can't sit at home for 18 months till a vaccine comes out.

Saw today that Japan is having its 2nd wave and they've gone back to restrictions after having lifted them.
I read that they had opened schools though. That I thing was a step too far. Talking to someone in Washing State he thought the reason they flattened their curve fairly early considering how fast they were hit was because they closed their schools early.

[jdhpa]

Originally Posted by mgkeith

I certainly understand why people are very upset about the restrictions. I am, too, although less so than a lot of people. But...aren't you an Alaskan? Why are you involved in this issue regarding Governor Whitmer? Who do you think would be a better choice, and why?

Also, who is this John Powell who started the petition? I read the petition, and he doesn't sound very bright; unusually poor grammar. Why is he doing this?
He also claims that Whitmer is causing the virus to worsen. Huh?

I'm looking for my retirement spot in a few short years (fewer than I like to admit to myself), and the UP is on my short list.

No idea who the prominent politicians in Michigan are, so I can't give a name. I do think, in key decisions, political leaders need to make unemotional, well considered, nuanced decisions. When a decision must be made immediately some leeway is warranted, so I actually would not hold it against a governor for initially overreacting to the corona virus.

But within a couple of weeks they need to have their arms around the situation and start making the necessary adjustments. Those adjustments, to me, show the difference between a good leader and "something else." I see some governors making those adjustments, or at least trying to give the impression they understand they need to do so: Abbott in Texas, Cuomo in New York. Other governors, though, seem to just be putting on blinders and bulldogging their way through, collateral damage is a non-factor: Newsom in California, Whitmer in Michigan, Murphy in New Jersey.

I understand the gravity of the situation for people who are infected with the virus. I also understand that people are being financially crushed by the shut down. A policy that shows the Governor understands both of these problems and is doing what can be done to minimize the overall damage to everyone, and not myopically focusing on just one or the other, is the type of nuance I referred to above. Note: I'm not saying they need to get it perfect, or strike the balance I think is best, just that they understand there's a balance to be struck and it's clear they're making an honest, reasonable attempt at it.

No idea who John Powell is. Someone who didn't vote for the Governor and wants a do-over, I would imagine.

[mgkeith]

Sounds like your intentions are good, and I hope all works out for you in terms of retirement and your move.
Please listen to the latest info from our governor (who I don't think is perfect, and I bet she doesn't think she's perfect either). Our state's administrators do understand that a balance is needed, and are trying their best to reach one. I sure wouldn't want to be in their position. There is availability for today's speech by the governor, and I'm sure you can look it up and make your own decisions. You might find it interesting.

[Sparrow_temp]

This virus is more contagious than the flu but appears to be even less lethal than it. Those 0.5-1.0% numbers will go WAY down once we get an antibody test to see who's actually had the virus. The majority of people getting the virus aren't even showing symptoms or have VERY minor symptoms. There's no data that the social distancing is having ANY effect. Look at how different states have implemented restrictions and you really won't see a good correlation on the number of infected or the deaths. Social distancing would have had a much larger impact on a virus that wasn't as contagious as this one.

So the true bottomline is that all of the government restrictions are doing nothing but hurting us. Michigan's restrictions are truly outrageous and prove what a fascist the current governor is. She needs to be recalled and all of the restrictions need to be lifted. Let people use their own judgement on what risks they are willing to take.

With regard that there's no proof that you can't get it more than once, there's no proof that it won't cure cancer either. People build antibodies to diseases and don't get them again unless the virus mutates. If they didn't, everybody would die that catches it. There are already multiple treatments for this virus if the FDA would just fast track them. The most obvious of course is hydroxychloroquine which the governor wanted to outlaw. Any treatment that shows promise should be allowed for treatment in extreme cases until there's an actual vaccine.

Originally Posted by roodd279

Yeah - it might kill the same number as the flu, here in the USA, ultimately - but it would still by any measure be much worse than the flu.


1. It killed that many in a month - not a five-month flu season - taxing the resources horribly in some spots.
2. It killed that FEW in that month - because of the crazy measures we all are taking.
3. There is zero - none - 0 - actually NOTHING - that would have limited it, in real life or in theory - had we not tried social isolation.

4. If you are arguing with #3, please forward your theory to the CDC - they need it. Not this forum. (Here are some hints though: It's not seasonal. It is not defeated with sunlight. It IS certainly highly contagious. It DOES certainly kill something like 0.5 - 1.0% of everyone that gets it. It DOES certainly work harder on folks with things like high blood pressure, diabetes, obesity, and asthma - about half the USA. There is so far no natural immunity. There is no vaccine. There is no proof you can't get it twice. And you can definitely transmit it without symptoms. Did I miss anything?)

[mgkeith]

Originally Posted by Sparrow_temp

This virus is more contagious than the flu but appears to be even less lethal than it. Those 0.5-1.0% numbers will go WAY down once we get an antibody test to see who's actually had the virus. The majority of people getting the virus aren't even showing symptoms or have VERY minor symptoms. There's no data that the social distancing is having ANY effect. Look at how different states have implemented restrictions and you really won't see a good correlation on the number of infected or the deaths. Social distancing would have had a much larger impact on a virus that wasn't as contagious as this one.

So the true bottomline is that all of the government restrictions are doing nothing but hurting us. Michigan's restrictions are truly outrageous and prove what a fascist the current governor is. She needs to be recalled and all of the restrictions need to be lifted. Let people use their own judgement on what risks they are willing to take.

With regard that there's no proof that you can't get it more than once, there's no proof that it won't cure cancer either. People build antibodies to diseases and don't get them again unless the virus mutates. If they didn't, everybody would die that catches it. There are already multiple treatments for this virus if the FDA would just fast track them. The most obvious of course is hydroxychloroquine which the governor wanted to outlaw. Any treatment that shows promise should be allowed for treatment in extreme cases until there's an actual vaccine.

I haven't seen any proof of the statements you are making here, and I have been reading an awful lot about this. Where is your data?