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I am older than James Mackenzie Fallows who was born August 2, 1949.
I served 20+ years continuous active duty in the U.S. Military.
Fallows served 0 (zero) time in any military...
Early in his career, Fallows wrote an article called "What Did You Do in the Class War, Daddy?" (Washington Monthly, October 1975). It described the "draft physical" day at the Boston Navy Yard in 1970, in which Fallows and his Harvard and MIT classmates overwhelmingly produced reasons for medical exemptions, while the white working-class men of Chelsea, Massachusetts were approved for service...
I wonder about Fallows "realities"....
I, too am older than Fallows and I passed my preinduction physical and was drafted and put in my time and got out. You were free to make your choice, I was not. I hold no grudge for those who used every method to avoid doing time while politicians, chasing votes and supporting big business, sent my brothers and yours to their deaths while keeping their own kids home. As one famous objector stated "I Ain’t Got No Quarrel With Them Vietcong." I didn't then, still don't today and respect the decision that any young man made in those times. It's the American way.
Last edited by kokonutty; 08-23-2019 at 09:05 PM..
Look at US Government leaders as the problem, not the military. Clueless leaders in the White House and Congress setting limits on the military inhibit their ability to complete victory.
So hundreds of billions of dollars was not enough money spent to obtain victory recently. Okay.
Years ago, I remember taking the elevator down from our floor and there was several others on it. Two guys worked for us. One was the GM who ran an operation for us. The other was an agent on one of the teams.
Both guys were pushing 60 and at least 10 years older than me. One lost his hand in Vietnam, the other avoided the draft.
When the doors opened, the GM wished us both a good weekend and went on his way. The other guy turned to me and said, “When that mother****er was chasing tail in college, we were in Vietnam trying to survive. Now look at him....he probably make 4 times what I make.”
I hadn’t heard someone express it in those terms before but it made me wonder about my service’s impact on my career. Life isn’t linear - my outcomes would have been different had I not served. I’m lucky - in the second half of the 70’s, there was no appetite for war so I came out mentally and physically intact. The best I can do now is vote my conscience and try to take care of those who weren’t as lucky.
I, too am older than Fallows and I passed my preinduction physical and was drafted and put in my time and got out. You were free to make your choice, I was not. I hold no grudge for those who used every method to avoid doing time while politicians, chasing votes and supporting big business, sent my brothers and yours to their deaths while keeping their own kids home. As one famous objector stated "I Ain’t Got No Quarrel With Them Vietcong." I didn't then, still don't today and respect the decision that any young man made in those times. It's the American way.
So hundreds of billions of dollars was not enough money spent to obtain victory recently. Okay.
It’s not about the budget. It’s about rules of engagement and limits on when and where to engage the enemy in the field. Congress and the stars in the Pentagon waste boatloads of cash. Seen examples of this first hand. That is Congress. What I’m talking about is a committee of politicians setting limits on how the military can combat the enemy. Setting such limits emboldens the enemy and prolongs the war/combat. Complete victory over the enemy brings an end to combat. Gee, it’s almost as if some members of Congress are profiting off continued combat operations.
It’s not about the budget. It’s about rules of engagement and limits on when and where to engage the enemy in the field. Congress and the stars in the Pentagon waste boatloads of cash. Seen examples of this first hand. That is Congress. What I’m talking about is a committee of politicians setting limits on how the military can combat the enemy. Setting such limits emboldens the enemy and prolongs the war/combat. Complete victory over the enemy brings an end to combat. Gee, it’s almost as if some members of Congress are profiting off continued combat operations.
It's not nearly that simple. Do you think our generations greatest military scholars didn't think of that? The enemy gets a vote. Sometimes limited wars need to be conducted. And sometimes, the enemy will not give in.
And giving military leaders a free pass to do what they want will be a disaster. See McArthur in Korea for an example.
Do you believe that your 22 years in the military, my two years, or Fallows' zero years gives any of us more of a right to voice his opinion than the others?
Lingering Word War II strategy. All those billion dollar aircraft carriers , submarines and F 35 fighters will never defeat small cells of religious fanatics armed with assault rifles and suicide bomb vests.
TBF - the US has very good special forces and intelligence gathering agencies, and has invested heavily in drones and cyber warfare.
Furthermore the US has been succesful in keeping the peace since WW2, as all those conventional and nuclear forces mean that few countries would want to go to war with the US.
In terms of Vietnam, it was the unpopularity of the war at home and the Vietnamese peoples ability to take extremely heavy losses, whilst the middle east is a no win situation, as are countries like Afghanistan, and it's best not to be drawn in to ground wars in such areas.
Britain had to fight a lot of wars after leaving Empire, some were more succesful than others, although one of the most striking succeses was during the Malayan Emergency when large numbers of civilians were put in to 'new villages' with barbed wire around them and special crack forces including the Royal Marines and King's African Rifles and headed by the SAS were sent in to hunt down and kill the Communist Guerillas and to use the very same irregular warfare tactics againt the communist forces.
It's not nearly that simple. Do you think our generations greatest military scholars didn't think of that? The enemy gets a vote. Sometimes limited wars need to be conducted. And sometimes, the enemy will not give in.
And giving military leaders a free pass to do what they want will be a disaster. See McArthur in Korea for an example.
Don’t forget Westmoreland in Vietnam. Dumb as a box of rocks.
TBF - the US has very good special forces and intelligence gathering agencies, and has invested heavily in drones and cyber warfare.
Furthermore the US has been succesful in keeping the peace since WW2, as all those conventional and nuclear forces mean that few countries would want to go to war with the US.
In terms of Vietnam, it was the unpopularity of the war at home and the Vietnamese peoples ability to take extremely heavy losses, whilst the middle east is a no win situation, as are countries like Afghanistan, and it's best not to be drawn in to ground wars in such areas.
Britain had to fight a lot of wars after leaving Empire, some were more succesful than others, although one of the most striking succeses was during the Malayan Emergency when large numbers of civilians were put in to 'new villages' with barbed wire around them and special crack forces including the Royal Marines and King's African Rifles and headed by the SAS were sent in to hunt down and kill the Communist Guerillas and to use the very same irregular warfare tactics againt the communist forces.
I agree with this.
Plus, If by “wars” people mean protracted, asymmetrical counter-insurgency operations like Afghanistan, I don’t think the US (or any other conventional force) has a good enough track record of winning.
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