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maybe not the right... but the credibility...…...
You can still smell the mud and everything else; that has nothing to do with the decisions that were made that put you there. One need not have smelled the mud to understand those decisions and their consequences.
You can still smell the mud and everything else; that has nothing to do with the decisions that were made that put you there. One need not have smelled the mud to understand those decisions and their consequences.
I never have understood why there is hardly ever any mention of the south Vietnamese. It was not just "smelling the mud". It was experiencing what the south Vietnamese felt...…...The so called decision makers and definitely not the "protestors" ever knew that side of that war.
my service was 20 years active duty and two years of active reserve. Korean war veteran (1951)
I have little regard for the draft dodgers and the "peace" movement over the years. As often said I'd rather
fight our enemies 'over there' then in our back yard........... I will always respect military personal
weather they served on the line or behind the line. They do not choose where they are stationed........
Right or wrong, my country................... MAGA
The Atlantic. That's all I need to know that this is just another leftist hit piece.
Nothing like a closed mind is there?
If you actually took the time to read Fallows article you would find something that provides much food for thought. Fallows describes how white upper middle class and upper class men found or created deferments that allowed them to avoid service in the Vietnam War. Working class men and middle class men from families in the midwest and the south accepted being drafted and chose to serve in the military. It raises questions about what are our obligations to our country. It raises additional questions about what "equality" really means and does not mean in America.
My background lead me to appreciate the article. My parents both served in the military in World War II. No one back than questioned that everyone had an obligation to step forward and serve their nation in a time of peril. Many Hollywood celebrities served. For example, Jimmy Stewart became a bomber pilot. Those who couldn't serve entertained the troops often at the risk of their lives. Orchestra leader, Glenn Miller, died in an airplane crash as did actress Carol Lombard who was returning from a fund raising event for war bonds. My wife and I both had an uncle who died in that conflict. It was a very different war than the Vietnam War was.
I have never totally resolved how I feel about about the dichotomy that Fallows describes. Some wars that this country became involved in shouldn't have been fought. Others were a question of national survival and had to be fought. Public support for each war has been different.
What Fallows did was raise an issue that more people need to debate and discuss. However, many people can't or won't do that. They simply want to be told "what side they are on" and than treat a conflict like it is a football game.
I never have understood why there is hardly ever any mention of the south Vietnamese. It was not just "smelling the mud". It was experiencing what the south Vietnamese felt...…...The so called decision makers and definitely not the "protestors" ever knew that side of that war.
South Vietnamese? What about the North Vietnamese? What did they feel? What was their side of the war like?
What would the Civil War here have been like if every European power joined forces with the Confederates?
As I recall, the class bias of the Viet Nam draft was still offset by some upper middle class folks. I (from a very poor family) attended Air Force Officer Training School in late 1968 with people from Princeton, Harvard, and I am pretty sure one of the scions of the Whitney family was also a classmate of mine. There were loads of Air Force Academy, Annapolis and West Point folks around during the war as well.
Yes, and they still served their country...
Quote:
Originally Posted by rmm0484
I wonder what would happen if we reinstated the draft. Theoretically, we should not need as many men, since women should be also be eligible to serve in some capacity. (Although we had huge national debates about that subject before).
From: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amer...n_World_War_II
"During World War II, approximately 400,000 U.S. women served with the armed forces. As many as 543 died in war-related incidents, including 16 from enemy fire - even though U.S. political and military leaders had decided not to use women in combat because they feared public opinion."
A person who takes a stand in public is never a coward in my book. The more public they are, the stronger the point they make.
I don't think you have the perspective on this that someone who lived through it has and are basing your views on what you've gleaned second hand. That will vary according to the sources you access.
I don't think you actually read what I have posted.
Here we go again, "someone who lived through it" So predictable.
Some of you always tried to shut somebody up because we don't have the "first hand experience". Isn't you just said to somebody else that civilian can also express their views about military? Give me a break, admit it or not, your bias has shown.
I never said ONE should not take a stand in public, I said, "Many opportunists actually hide behind the anti war mask, they are the worst kind." Some anti-war protesters are just that, opportunists. They give genuine anti-war protesters bad name, can you really deny that? This is the whole point I was making. I never said one takes a stand in public is a coward.
Let me ask you this, the people who protested in front of VA hospital are actually college students who never served (just like me), what kind of first hand experience do they have? What makes them "experts" to judge other people's choices? I have said it once and I am going to say it again, if they are really anti-war, they should have protested in front of the white house, any government building, Marine corps or Army base. That is what I would call "take a stand in public". What is the point of protesting in front of the VA hospital where everybody just tried to heal the wounds of war? There are HUGE differences between anti foreign policy and anti-military or anti-soldiers. Do you know the differences between the two?
Try read before commenting on my post. Try understand the point I was trying to make
Last edited by lilyflower3191981; 08-25-2019 at 09:17 AM..
South Vietnamese? What about the North Vietnamese? What did they feel? What was their side of the war like?
What would the Civil War here have been like if every European power joined forces with the Confederates?
well, it looks like you are trying so desperately to be fair and balanced, but your bias has painfully shown. Very unfortunate.
First and foremost, there is no doubt in my mind many Americans today are questioning the purpose of Vietnam war. But there are always three sides in every story.
Have you heard of kháng chiến chống Mỹ cứu nước? It means ‘The Anti-American Resistance to Unify/Save the Country" That is the "official" version of history taught in the Vietnamese textbooks. Many Vietnamese understand that official view can be very one-sided.
The "official" version has seen the war as
a patriotic war to unify the country divided by the USA, in the same manner as the anti-colonial war against the French in the preceding century.
But they (educated Vietnamese who can think for themselves) also understand that the domino theory is not mentioned and many people are unaware of the ideological motive from the American perspective, the larger Cold War context, their relationships with the USSR, the Socialist bloc, China and other South East Asian countries.
The Vietnamese people who fled the country due to the hardships after unification are seen as ‘betrayers’. They are not taught why they left the country. Many young people don’t know about the very dark period after 1975, when many Southerners were sent to re-education camps or dead end new ‘economic zones’.
Many educated Vietnamese believe that it is still a very controversial and complex topic with diverging views underneath a veil of reconciliation. Honest and thoughtful reflections are still not allowed. Let's face it, until the day that that can happen, the wound will never really heal.
All these being said, by no means, am I suggesting Vietnam war was a "good" war (for lack of a better word), but American soldiers have served their country and to many people, they have done good deeds. War has been and will always be a very controversial topic.
Last edited by lilyflower3191981; 08-25-2019 at 10:04 AM..
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I am a conservative, first of all,
So predictable. 
Very unfortunate.
