Do we really need to expand the military due to sexual harassment
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It’s not a matter of understanding it, simply the attitude of the day was very different than it is today. Many of them participated in a culture that was unfriendly to female military members, so now to ask them to sit in judgment of people accused of the same things that many of them and their friends did seems counterproductive. I am not saying that every military member back then engaged in sexual harassment by any means, but the poster who served in the late 80s early 90s, said it was a very different atmosphere. That requires complicence by many many people not just a few. Aside from that, most retired military are men, and I don’t know that it should just be men on these boards. For that matter, I don’t know that it just needs to be military people. Pretty much the problem we’ve had with police, police policing themselves. Maybe the military shouldn’t be policing themselves either. But to say that retired military members from previous generations would be the best people to sit in judgment of people accused of sexual harassment in the modern military culture, just seems like a step backwards not forward.
OTOH, I think things had been improving all through the 70s, 80s, and 90s that I served in the Air Force. But then, I was in Intelligence, which is a perhaps a different level of attitude from some other specialties.
But even Intelligence was considered a "non-traditional" specialty for women in the 70s...yet, by the time I retired in 1999, my boss was a female major general, and I'd worked for a couple of female colonels.
I was called sexatary (I was a 702, admin) required to wear a skirt (actually reported for showing up in fatigues.. what was the normal uniform of the day for everyone else) I didn't know I had been reported for being out of uniform until I went to the Colonel on another matter and he mentioned it. The supervisor never came to me??
There were multiple other situations and it came to a head when I asked to switch weekends. Something that happened all the time. I was denied the request and asked why. They said that I was the only person qualified to perform a certain task...true, but had been trying for a year to teach someone else, but there were no other women in the orderly room and none of the guys would do it. Literally called it woman's work! These were trained 702's as well who did not outrank me, but followed the lead of the 1st Sgt and my boss. It was computer work, which was new and I had been thoroughly trained in at a previous location. They just didn't want to learn.
Anyway, I had been writing down all the very specific situations, none extreme harassment in and of itself, but all combined definitely was. I wrote a letter to the Squadron commander, ccing the Group and Wing commanders (who were located in another location) I asked not only for the weekend off to go to a wedding but also since I was 3 months shy of my military commitment to be released from further commitment. If granted I would not submit the other letters. I know this was possible because I was the person that did this for others, and had filled out the necessary forms. Just needed him to sign the paperwork.
Needless to say, my request was granted. My final act was to fax off the paperwork, turn off the computer, and walk out the door. They didn't know how to reboot the system or have the logins. Don't F@# with the secretary who does your payroll!
There were multiple phone calls to my house. I called the commander and told them to stop or the letters would be going to the Group and Wing. Never heard from them again.
Later ran into someone who was actually pretty decent and he said heads rolled. He also mentioned why I was targeted..yes targeted...because I was married to an active-duty officer. That is the excuse they used, not that I was female. Seriously!
Anyway, my husband completed a 30-year career. I also worked as a defense contractor for 25 years, what we both noticed is the blatant sexual harassment (posters, comments, wolf whistle types) went away as it generally did in the civilian world in the last 25 years or so, but at the same time the level of women in the military grew, as did the number and type of positions they held. That has created a completely different type of harassment. One that is secretive, not overt and can definitely be more dangerous. No amount of SHARP training or whatever they are calling in now is going to change the mindset of a guy or gal who is threatened or sees their position as a powerful tool to get what they want. Or see women taking on roles or replacing them, or god forbid, being better at it.
Should retirees who worked in the world where I was subjected to harassment now police this new kind of harassment? Not unless they can get past the "well back in my day we did things this way..." mentality. And trust me I am around military retirees all day...and hear something similar at least once a week! The other day it was all about the new hair styles allowed!!! "that was never allowed in my day"...blah blah blah...I told my husband to keep up or shut up!
"LIEUTENANT! WHAT DID YOU DO? I SEE YOU ON SHORE PATROL ALL THE TIME!". That's what a Chief said to me once and while secretly I rather liked getting a comment out of a Chief like that, it was true. As an officer they would not qualify for CDO, I got all the shi**y little jobs no one else would do.
I was beach guard after the expiration of liberty, alone on a small dock in a foreign port from 02 till 08. I pulled shore patrol almost every duty day. I was the PFT (is that the term?) officer and was out there each morning at 0610 running the fat boys in port. By work and by nature, I was isolated from the other officers and then by nature again, isolated even more. The three ensigns under the Bull Ensign were not trying to hand cuff me to a locker because they saw me as comrade.
Finally, I see it as a hardening of the inner core and perhaps a necessary one when one is in the military. I was not, for example, one to be there joking with the rest of the quarterdeck watch around the podium and log but rather, out there by the stern, pacing back and forth, always on the move.
I was called sexatary (I was a 702, admin) required to wear a skirt (actually reported for showing up in fatigues.. what was the normal uniform of the day for everyone else) I didn't know I had been reported for being out of uniform until I went to the Colonel on another matter and he mentioned it. The supervisor never came to me??
There were multiple other situations and it came to a head when I asked to switch weekends. Something that happened all the time. I was denied the request and asked why. They said that I was the only person qualified to perform a certain task...true, but had been trying for a year to teach someone else, but there were no other women in the orderly room and none of the guys would do it. Literally called it woman's work! These were trained 702's as well who did not outrank me, but followed the lead of the 1st Sgt and my boss. It was computer work, which was new and I had been thoroughly trained in at a previous location. They just didn't want to learn.
Anyway, I had been writing down all the very specific situations, none extreme harassment in and of itself, but all combined definitely was. I wrote a letter to the Squadron commander, ccing the Group and Wing commanders (who were located in another location) I asked not only for the weekend off to go to a wedding but also since I was 3 months shy of my military commitment to be released from further commitment. If granted I would not submit the other letters. I know this was possible because I was the person that did this for others, and had filled out the necessary forms. Just needed him to sign the paperwork.
Needless to say, my request was granted. My final act was to fax off the paperwork, turn off the computer, and walk out the door. They didn't know how to reboot the system or have the logins. Don't F@# with the secretary who does your payroll!
There were multiple phone calls to my house. I called the commander and told them to stop or the letters would be going to the Group and Wing. Never heard from them again.
Later ran into someone who was actually pretty decent and he said heads rolled. He also mentioned why I was targeted..yes targeted...because I was married to an active-duty officer. That is the excuse they used, not that I was female. Seriously!
Anyway, my husband completed a 30-year career. I also worked as a defense contractor for 25 years, what we both noticed is the blatant sexual harassment (posters, comments, wolf whistle types) went away as it generally did in the civilian world in the last 25 years or so, but at the same time the level of women in the military grew, as did the number and type of positions they held. That has created a completely different type of harassment. One that is secretive, not overt and can definitely be more dangerous. No amount of SHARP training or whatever they are calling in now is going to change the mindset of a guy or gal who is threatened or sees their position as a powerful tool to get what they want. Or see women taking on roles or replacing them, or god forbid, being better at it.
Should retirees who worked in the world where I was subjected to harassment now police this new kind of harassment? Not unless they can get past the "well back in my day we did things this way..." mentality. And trust me I am around military retirees all day...and hear something similar at least once a week! The other day it was all about the new hair styles allowed!!! "that was never allowed in my day"...blah blah blah...I told my husband to keep up or shut up!
Sorry that you had to go through all of that! Thankfully things have changed a lot for the better since you got out.
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Thankfully things have changed a lot for the better since you got out.
