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The army has data from the 80s of women operating in combat roles, including many competitive exercises in which women were placed in combat teams with men. The results have been absolutely consistent: Women do not perform as well in ground combat operations as men. Period. They have the data, it's not even a debate. women fail in those positions when put to the test. it's like arguing that a wnba team could succeed in the nba.
That continues to be true in combat-adjacent fields as well, because they all involve a lot more donkey work than people think.
Even the small proportion of women who are strong enough for those jobs are betrayed by their biology. The testosterone of young men enable them to quickly heal from "microfractures" that occur during a normal day of combat operations. Women and older men, lacking those testosterone levels, wind up compiling those microfractures day after day, and fairly quickly wind up seriously and often permanently disabled.
Women wind up in staff jobs because that's where they can perform. But because the military exists for combat, combat service is a desirable promotion criterion for combat leadership.
If a recruit today is "stressed" by a drill instructor he can pull out a "time out" card. Really? What if he gets into a firefight and is "stressed"? No timeout cards on a battlefield.
Something like that existed briefly in the mid-90s.
In Basic Training / Bootcamp a lot of re4cruits washout.
If a recruit has only been there briefly they might not have even had all of their uniforms issued yet. That is seen as the best time to boot them out.
Nobody suggested that a recruit whining that they are too stressed would be a servicemember that is going to graduate and go on to a unit.
On the other hand, how many vets show up at the V.A. claiming to have PTSD over some incident that happened at Basic Training?
No, it is a far better idea to let those individuals flag themselves so we can boot them out.
The Army has data from the 80s of women operating in combat roles, including many competitive exercises in which women were placed in combat teams with men. The results have been absolutely consistent: Women do not perform as well in ground combat operations as men. Period. They have the data, it's not even a debate. Women fail in those positions when put to the test. It's like arguing that a WNBA team could succeed in the NBA.
That continues to be true in combat-adjacent fields as well, because they all involve a lot more donkey work than people think.
Even the small proportion of women who are strong enough for those jobs are betrayed by their biology. The testosterone of young men enable them to quickly heal from "microfractures" that occur during a normal day of combat operations. Women and older men, lacking those testosterone levels, wind up compiling those microfractures day after day, and fairly quickly wind up seriously and often permanently disabled.
Women wind up in staff jobs because that's where they can perform. But because the military exists for combat, combat service is a desirable promotion criterion for combat leadership.
Quote:
Originally Posted by elnina
wow!!
I agree so let's make that a double wow!!!!
I am not sure if you deployed to a war zone with women in your unit, I have. I have also had very good NCO's work for me and with me. I think that we have made a lot of progress in that from the time I was a young buck private.
As for this titled thread, I think that any of you all think we have been "woke" should be ashamed of yourselves for falling for all the lies.
I am not sure if you deployed to a war zone with women in your unit, I have. I have also had very good NCO's work for me and with me. I think that we have made a lot of progress in that from the time I was a young buck private.
As for this titled thread, I think that any of you all think we have been "woke" should be ashamed of yourselves for falling for all the lies.
Here is an example:
Quote:
Data collected during a monthslong experiment showed Marine teams with female members performed at lower overall levels, completed tasks more slowly and fired weapons with less accuracy than their all-male counterparts. In addition, female Marines sustained significantly higher injury rates and demonstrated lower levels of physical performance capacity overall, officials said.
And I can point to other studies that say that accounting for the service member's physical capabilities nearly always results in a good outcome for assigned missions. Please stop telling us that every female has to be Arnold when they can be just as average as Audie.
I think most of your posts are spot on. In this I think everyone that is taking the ideas that this army is woke, losing it's edge, and otherwise not up to par, is playing into the CCP and the Russian game. Yes we can disagree with some jobs that women can occupy but you cannot discount the number of women that have performed under very stressful conditions of war. This entire argument is not helping put leaders in the following positions that are now vacant because of the same crowd of people, Marine Corps, Army and Navy. The Air Force head will be in the mix in about 2 months. You all should be up in arms about that ****!!!
And I can point to other studies that say that accounting for the service member's physical capabilities nearly always results in a good outcome for assigned missions. Please stop telling us that every female has to be Arnold when they can be just as average as Audie.
I think most of your posts are spot on. In this I think everyone that is taking the ideas that this army is woke, losing it's edge, and otherwise not up to par, is playing into the CCP and the Russian game. Yes we can disagree with some jobs that women can occupy but you cannot discount the number of women that have performed under very stressful conditions of war. This entire argument is not helping put leaders in the following positions that are now vacant because of the same crowd of people, Marine Corps, Army and Navy. The Air Force head will be in the mix in about 2 months. You all should be up in arms about that ****!!!
I said: "Women do not perform as well in ground combat operations as men."
You are claiming I said something different from that.
Can women in the military do everything a man can, no. But you have women like St. Joan of Arc, Molly Pitcher and some other examples in history who were brave and willing to fight. And you had women in the resistance movement who fought against the nazis in various countries.
Women have been nurses on the front line too. Have seen a photo from WW1 of a french officer awarding a nun a military medal for her bravery and care of the wounded, and religious orders have treated both sides during war time. The Daughters of Charity of St.Vincent de Paul right here in the US worked as nurses during the Civil War, as did several other orders.
And as far as guys go claiming PTSD from as you said something that happened in basic training, well they shouldn't have joined up. The military isn't a game and I have relatives on both sides who served and some made a career of it. Same for those relatives back in Germany and Hungary.
No but you are showing us a study that says women do not perform as well as men. Your post not mine.
I showed you a study that focused specifically on ground combat operations in evidence to my specific reference to ground combat operations. Didn't read it, did you?
I showed you a study that focused specifically on ground combat operations in evidence to my specific reference to ground combat operations. Didn't read it, did you?
I did read it. Did you really?
Quote:
Data collected during a monthslong experiment showed Marine teams with female members performed at lower overall levels, completed tasks more slowly and fired weapons with less accuracy than their all-male counterparts. In addition, female Marines sustained significantly higher injury rates and demonstrated lower levels of physical performance capacity overall, officials said.
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