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View Poll Results: Do you think women should be able to join the Infantry?
Yes 26 49.06%
No 23 43.40%
Other (explain) 4 7.55%
Voters: 53. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 10-03-2014, 08:19 PM
 
28,719 posts, read 18,940,835 times
Reputation: 31036

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Submariner View Post
When the military was harder on recruits, it engendered that attitude through-out the military. Sociopaths flourished in that environment. Predators were rewarded, as they did make "shining examples of perfect soldiers".
No, I don't think so. My family has been solidly military since the Spanish-American war. I've always lived around soldiers. There are more sociopaths in the military now.

And it's not just my opinion--the Marine Corps was concerned enough about the lack of morality of new recruits in the 80s that they added a week--12 weeks to 13 weeks--just for more basic morality training. That's because high schools themselves are more sadistic than they used to be.
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Old 10-03-2014, 08:31 PM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
37,592 posts, read 61,691,726 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk View Post
No, I don't think so. My family has been solidly military since the Spanish-American war. I've always lived around soldiers. There are more sociopaths in the military now.

And it's not just my opinion--the Marine Corps was concerned enough about the lack of morality of new recruits in the 80s that they added a week--12 weeks to 13 weeks--just for more basic morality training. That's because high schools themselves are more sadistic than they used to be.
'Morality' training?

Sociopath does not mean a person has a lack of morality training. That is like saying your tall because the pyramids are made of stone.

Morals have no bearing on personality disorders.
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Old 10-03-2014, 09:31 PM
 
Location: Broomfield, Colorado
656 posts, read 1,346,045 times
Reputation: 868
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwillyfromphilly View Post
How would you go about fixing the problem?
Well, I don't have all the answers, nor do I pretend to, but I think I got the first step figured out - STOP ****ING TOLERATING IT. You don't have to be a detective genius to realize that the Pentagon's mentality of, "well, ****... we'll just sweep this little thing under the rug" has done absolutely nothing to alleviate the problem - if anything, it has had the opposite effect. I don't have the be-all, end-all answer to the problem - and don't talk ****, because neither do you - but I think I've got one part figured out, at least.

Quote:
There's nothing that can be done to completely prevent all rapes from ever happening.
Well, golly gee... shucks. I'da n'er thunk that'un on my own!
Seriously, do you think this is some grand revelation you've stumbled upon? I mean, no ****, you can't prevent it 100% of the time. You can, however, not create a climate which facilitates it, and that is exactly what the military has failed to do.

Quote:
You will always have bad people in this world. There will always be rapists in society as there will always be murderers and pedophiles.
So, what? That means we just accept it and not try to reduce the problem? Keep tolerating it? Keep turning a blind eye to it? Keep making bull**** excuses for inaction such as, "well, we can't stop 'em all, so no ****ing point in even trying"?
You'll forgive me if I'm quick to disagree with that approach.
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Old 10-03-2014, 09:51 PM
 
28,719 posts, read 18,940,835 times
Reputation: 31036
Quote:
Originally Posted by Submariner View Post
'Morality' training?

Sociopath does not mean a person has a lack of morality training. That is like saying your tall because the pyramids are made of stone.

Morals have no bearing on personality disorders.
Remember you used the word first. If you're going to get pedantic about it, you're going to have to show some scientific evidence of your first statement: Show some evidence that "sociopaths" flourished in earlier years to a greater extent that they do now and that it was caused by the military training of the day.
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Old 10-04-2014, 05:45 AM
 
Location: Elysium
12,452 posts, read 8,255,511 times
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Training has changed since SLA Marshall's studies suggesting that riflemen would not fire. Then changed again after the US Vietnam experiences. With today's recruit coming in with virtual combat experiences, many times playing an amoral felon I can see a need for morality training. Armies are not yet pre screening like police forces are.
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Old 10-04-2014, 09:44 AM
 
Location: Cumberland County, NJ
8,634 posts, read 13,048,318 times
Reputation: 5775
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mire View Post
Well, I don't have all the answers, nor do I pretend to, but I think I got the first step figured out - STOP ****ING TOLERATING IT. You don't have to be a detective genius to realize that the Pentagon's mentality of, "well, ****... we'll just sweep this little thing under the rug" has done absolutely nothing to alleviate the problem - if anything, it has had the opposite effect. I don't have the be-all, end-all answer to the problem - and don't talk ****, because neither do you - but I think I've got one part figured out, at least.



Well, golly gee... shucks. I'da n'er thunk that'un on my own!
Seriously, do you think this is some grand revelation you've stumbled upon? I mean, no ****, you can't prevent it 100% of the time. You can, however, not create a climate which facilitates it, and that is exactly what the military has failed to do.



So, what? That means we just accept it and not try to reduce the problem? Keep tolerating it? Keep turning a blind eye to it? Keep making bull**** excuses for inaction such as, "well, we can't stop 'em all, so no ****ing point in even trying"?
You'll forgive me if I'm quick to disagree with that approach.
I never said we shouldn't do anything to help reduce the problem or turn a blind eye to it but you can't completely eliminated it. That's all I'm saying. I'm not making up excuses, I'm just telling the truth.
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Old 10-04-2014, 12:10 PM
 
Location: Broomfield, Colorado
656 posts, read 1,346,045 times
Reputation: 868
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwillyfromphilly View Post
I never said we shouldn't do anything to help reduce the problem or turn a blind eye to it but you can't completely eliminated it. That's all I'm saying. I'm not making up excuses, I'm just telling the truth.
And I agree 100%. Problem is, that mentality is adopted by a lot of people, and that's how the military was treating the problem.
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