Give us 10 reasons NOT to move to the Minneapolis/St.Paul metro (Brooklyn Park: real estate market, rent)

[cinnamon_toast]

I love the Twin Cities and would be hard-pressed to come up with 10 negative things about it. But frankly when it comes to evaluating Minnesota there's really only one reason in my mind NOT to move here and that is the weather. I would pick Denver any day over Minnesota for that very reason. Even knowing nothing about Denver. 6 months out of the year it is unbearably cold here and with no mountains, your choice of outdoor activities for when the temp is actually above 15 degrees is very, very limited.

[MnMomma]

Originally Posted by cinnamon_toast

there's really only one reason in my mind NOT to move here and that is the weather. I would pick Denver any day over Minnesota for that very reason. Even knowing nothing about Denver. 6 months out of the year it is unbearably cold here and with no mountains, your choice of outdoor activities for when the temp is actually above 15 degrees is very, very limited.

I guess it depends on what you consider "unbearably cold," but 6 months of the year is a gross exaggeration no matter how you look at it. This week we've been cross country skiing, sledding and hiking. We spent part of New Year's Eve outside on a candle-lit trail and roasting marshmallows. And this was with my senior-citizen inlaws and my two young children--and noone complained about it being "unbearably cold." My children play outside for recess at school twice a day nearly every day of the year and they love it.

So, my number one reason not to move here would be the annoying people who complain about the weather (because they don't bother going outside anyway).. Number two would be because of the people who complain about Minnesotans being unfriendly (because they lack social skills and expect people to bang down their door to be their friend). As for 3 through 10, it would be the ugly suburban sprawl that I happily never have to see, the taxes, and the distance from my family. That's all I can come up with.

BTW-I'm not from Minnesota (nor is my husband). I've been here 10 years and have no plans to ever leave (even after a terrific job offer in Boston, where I have family). I've lived in Chicago, Pittsburgh and Cleveland.

[cinnamon_toast]

Unbearably cold can probably be applied to Dec - Feb. End of October - March are simply cold. When the air burns your lungs, your fingers and toes go numb, and you have to bundle up in every article of outdoor clothing you own just to go outside, it's unbearably cold. There is just simply no way I can be physically comfortable outside in zero degree weather like we had last night, so kudos to you for venturing out. I DO go outside in the winter, in fact I am gearing up for a run right now. But by golly if I had a choice on where to live, it certainly wouldn't be someplace as cold as here!

[MnMomma]

Thank you cinnamon_toast! I'm glad to hear you're headed out for a run because it helps me explain something: when people post on this type of forum, they tend to speak in absolutes. Like "unbearably cold" and "can't go outside all winter." From cinnamon_toast's first post, it would appear that he/she sits inside for 6 months because it's just too cold--but an outdoor run is planned for today. From my initial post, it looks like I'm outside everyday--but today I'm watching football and going for a run (on a treadmill!).

If you move here, just make sure you buy some decent winter wear. Cold-weather gear is so much better than it was just 5 years ago. Last night for the candlelight hike I wore regular clothes (jeans, long-sleeve shirt and vest) with silk long-johns underneath, wool socks, boots, a neck gaiter, hat and good gloves. I didn't look like someone from the Christmas Story and I was perfectly comfortable the entire time.

As for snow, my sister who lives in Georgetown (North of Boston) gets at least double the snow we do every year. We only pull out the snowblower a few times each winter (like last week).

[golfgal]

Originally Posted by cinnamon_toast

Unbearably cold can probably be applied to Dec - Feb. End of October - March are simply cold. When the air burns your lungs, your fingers and toes go numb, and you have to bundle up in every article of outdoor clothing you own just to go outside, it's unbearably cold. There is just simply no way I can be physically comfortable outside in zero degree weather like we had last night, so kudos to you for venturing out. I DO go outside in the winter, in fact I am gearing up for a run right now. But by golly if I had a choice on where to live, it certainly wouldn't be someplace as cold as here!

As everything, it is all relative. This year I didn't even put on my winter coat until mid-Dec and even then only if I was going to be outside longer than running from the car to the store. While it is cold, it isn't unbearable, yet. Even yesterday when I was out running errands all day I was HOT with my turtleneck, sweater and coat on. I left my coat unzipped when outside. Now, if I was out playing in the snow, that is different but just being out and about it isn't cold.

This temp doesn't burn my lungs--that is more like the -20 or colder. Maybe that comes from growing up in this weather and playing outside all the time as a kid?? It is winter and the temps are supposed to be cold. We really only get a couple weeks of the unbearable cold in my opinion.

[HKB]

I've lived in MN all my life, and every year the winters get harder to deal with. I loved it as a kid (hockey, sledding, snow forts, etc...). I was indifferent to it in my teens and early 20's when I had relatively few responsibilities. After college it started becoming a tolerable nuisance (commuting to work during bad weather). Now, in my early/mid 30's as a homeowner and father to a toddler and an infant, I've officially come to despise winter. Shoveling snow and clearing ice is getting old real fast, and getting the kids bundled up and into their car seats is a major hassle... to the point where we rarely take them out unless we have to.

My tolerance for cold is also less than it once was. Even in the house with the temp set at 69-70, my hands and feet are freezing. My lungs & nose feel congested most of the time when the temperature gets to be lower than 30.

So yeah... winter would be numbers 1-8 on my list of negatives. The passive-aggressive mentality and the political scene (high taxes/wacky politicians) would be the other reasons. I'd definitely prefer living in Denver if my whole family wasn't here. Like someone else mentioned, their extreme weather doesn't last as long.

EDIT
I keep seeing posts that mention how isolated the Twin Cities is. I don't know if I buy that. Compare it to Denver:

Twin Cities to Milwaukee: 295 miles
Twin Cities to Chicago: 354 miles
Twin Cities to Kansas City: 408 miles

Denver to Salt Lake City: 379 miles
Denver to Albuquerque: 335 miles
Denver to Kansas City: 554 miles
Denver to Phoenix: 586 miles

[golfgal]

Originally Posted by HKB

I've lived in MN all my life, and every year the winters get harder to deal with. I loved it as a kid (hockey, sledding, snow forts, etc...). I was indifferent to it in my teens and early 20's when I had relatively few responsibilities. After college it started becoming a tolerable nuisance (commuting to work during bad weather). Now, in my early/mid 30's as a homeowner and father to a toddler and an infant, I've officially come to despise winter. Shoveling snow and clearing ice is getting old real fast, and getting the kids bundled up and into their car seats is a major hassle... to the point where we rarely take them out unless we have to.

My tolerance for cold is also less than it once was. Even in the house with the temp set at 69-70, my hands and feet are freezing. My lungs & nose feel congested most of the time when the temperature gets to be lower than 30.

So yeah... winter would be numbers 1-8 on my list of negatives. The passive-aggressive mentality and the political scene (high taxes/wacky politicians) would be the other reasons. I'd definitely prefer living in Denver if my whole family wasn't here. Like someone else mentioned, their extreme weather doesn't last as long.

EDIT
I keep seeing posts that mention how isolated the Twin Cities is. I don't know if I buy that. Compare it to Denver:

Twin Cities to Milwaukee: 295 miles
Twin Cities to Chicago: 354 miles
Twin Cities to Kansas City: 408 miles

Denver to Salt Lake City: 379 miles
Denver to Albuquerque: 335 miles
Denver to Kansas City: 554 miles
Denver to Phoenix: 586 miles

OK, I will put one thing on my list--infants/toddlers in snowsuits with car seats--those were a PAIN in the rear. I am GLAD those days are over.

[Latitude38]

knke0204 is right on!

Another thing to consider is tuition rate for universities around here with cost that continues to go up up up and up.

[uptown_urbanist]

Originally Posted by HKB

EDIT
I keep seeing posts that mention how isolated the Twin Cities is. I don't know if I buy that. Compare it to Denver:

Twin Cities to Milwaukee: 295 miles
Twin Cities to Chicago: 354 miles
Twin Cities to Kansas City: 408 miles

Denver to Salt Lake City: 379 miles
Denver to Albuquerque: 335 miles
Denver to Kansas City: 554 miles
Denver to Phoenix: 586 miles

My argument would be that Denver is fairly isolated, too. Colorado Springs is close, as are some other interesting destinations, but it's also a long way from other big cities. I don't know about the others, but when I said that the Twin Cities are a long way away from other big cities I was thinking in comparison to places like Philadelphia, DC, NYC, etc., where you can hop on a train (or in a car) and get to another major city for an easy day trip. There are no big city day trips (that don't involve a plane ride) from the Twin Cities.

[Bjorn24]

Both cities are fairly isolated from other large cities so you probably shouldn't take that into account. Cost of living is also higher in Colorado, so MN taxes aren't really a good argument.


There are certainly pros to the Twin Cities and negatives about Denver, but Denver has a lot more positives in my opinion. Here are 9 complaints that I came up with:

1. Difficult to meet people and make real friends. If you look through the forums here a bit more you'll find several people complaining about it.
   
2. Of course the weather is a major factor, unless you really enjoy winter. It's not just the temperature to think about - driving while it's snowing or just after a snowfall can be really scary and costly if you get in an accident - it can also double or triple your commute time. Also remember to factor in energy costs for heating all winter. Ignore Golfgal's comments on the weather - she seems to be one of those cold-blooded types or something and is always defending it. It would be nice to know where you're coming from because it could really be a shock. MNDot does a pretty good job when it comes to plowing the highways but good luck driving around in the neighborhoods of Minneapolis and St. Paul. Suburb plowing is mixed. Summers can also be somewhat hot and humid (August), even though we are so far north, but it doesn't bother me nearly as much as winter.
   
3. Boring geography. With Denver vs Minneapolis, it's a trade-off between mountains and lakes.
   
4. The sports teams will let you down - Whether it's the Twins, Vikings, or the Timeberwolves, if you become a passionate fan you'll most likely become very frustrated. I guess the Wild have been fairly good but I'm not into hockey.
   
5. Road construction that never ends - It gets really old after a while. The 35W / Highway 62 area is crazy.
   
6. Distance to forests / large park areas. - Most people in MN get away by going "up north." In Denver, you're close to some amazing and gigantic national forests.
   
7. Boring suburbs - I can't comment on the suburbs of Denver but I'll certainly say that the suburbs of the Twin Cities are incredibly boring and generic. Most are filled with chain restaurants and chain shopping centers and they all seem to shut down at around 9 - 10PM, even in the summer (lights out and everyone is in bed). Obviously, this is a complaint that applies to several metro areas and not just MN.
   
8. Distance to warmer "vacation" areas - Many people in MN like to vacation in warmer places during the winter to take a break from the cold. While Denver winters are more tolerable, the plane ride to several of these places would be much shorter.
   
9. Traffic - Depending on where you drive on a regular basis, it can get bad; especially if you work downtown. It seems like much better and wider highways could have been planned and built long ago.