wolves in montana (what's your 2 cents?) (transplants, for sale, real estate market)

[Timberwolf232]

Originally Posted by michael11747

that would also be like saying that anyone who wasn't in the military should have no say about what countries we invade, and thereby give the deciding factor to a small group of people who have a vested interest in the matter, and thereby undermining the tenants of our democracy.

Last time I checked not everyone in congress has served in the military, but they have picked out plenty of places to invade, throw some ordinance, etc..

[michael11747]

Originally Posted by Timberwolf232

Last time I checked not everyone in congress has served in the military, but they have picked out plenty of places to invade, throw some ordinance, etc..

what i said earlier was just rhetoric. my point was that in a democracy, there can never be one group who makes a decision for the whole. i do believe that the government should let local govt's make local decisions. but hunters and ranchers are a minority in montana, just as liberals are. i was under the impression that montana is a place of moderation in all things. this is an issue which will be solved when wolves are removed from the endangered species list. and i will tell you the outcome. if someone wants to place a bet on my prediction, i'm game:

montanans will vote overwhelmingly (i would guess 75%) for management of wolves. eradication will never happen, and it is silly to hear about it. i don't know why people, who are otherwise intelligent, turn red in the face and unleash their hatred on an animal, who has no concept of vengence or malice, and vow to "kill em all". people's actions in the past are the blame here. let's get that straight. wolves do what they do, and we should have never eradicated the wolf in the first place. but the wolf was an inconvenience for the white settlers who wanted to ranch here. just as the bison were a threat. our answer back then was to "kill em all". that is a 100 year old mentality. we have other options now, and we can coexist.

[Gman2007]

Originally Posted by michael11747

what makes you think i am from vermont?

New York then? Pretty close to Vermont...

[marmac]

---wolves in Montana---???????

shoot em

that's my 2 cents

[michael11747]

Originally Posted by Gman2007

New York then? Pretty close to Vermont...

how ridiculous people are sometimes. first of all, i am not from new york, nor am i from vermont, nor am i a liberal, or a pink communist, or what have you. i have lived and worked all over this country, as well as the world, and to have to defend myself from these pathetic attacks is ridiculous. this is what children do. it is funny to me to see that the main issue is that liberal communists are taking over montana. wake up. what is this 1985? maybe a refresher course in 4th grade social studies is in order here.

let me tell you something. there will never be a day when you can go out and just shoot wolves for fun. wolf management is your only hope, and this talk about how we have to "kill em all" will go nowhere. there are people out there fighting for wolf management, and this kind of talk worsens the situation. it automatically puts the liberals on defense, and do i have to remind you that they have the money to take each and every decision to court? you are fooling yourselves if you think wolves are the main problem here. if humans didn't throw the yellowstone ecosystem out of balance in the first place, this would not be an issue. so i don't care if you were born here, or are some pinkie liberal communist, you need to learn to live with your neighbors. that's too bad if you don't want to learn.

i can talk for HOURS about ranching practice here in montana. but this is obviously not the place to discuss it, since there are no insightful opinions or ideas coming out of these posts, just petty insults which make no sense. before you know it, the FED will cancel your leases because of mismanagement, your kids will subdivide your land and build on it, and then where will you be? left with some irrational hatred towards an animal. so sad.

i know a dozen ranchers who successfuly manage their flock in wolf territory. they don't lose their sheep or cattle. they have no irrational hatreds. they live just fine with their canine neighbors. do you think any line of work doesn't have its pitfalls? shephards and ranchers have always been dealing with wolves. there are insurance claims and tax deductions for this sort of thing. ask your accountant.

as a matter of fact, the only people i talk with that have this hatred towards the wolf are not even in the ranching business, or are just ranch hands, which i suspect is the case here. ranch owners in southwest montana know how to handle wolves, and the impact of them on their land. maybe some should take a lesson.

[Blondie621]

Originally Posted by bigtrees

I'd like to say a few things as a native Montanan displaced in Seattle.

About the Native Montana outfitter who supports wolves: Outfitters are hired by out of state visitors to be tour guides of the great outdoors. Wolves are part of the attraction of the state for people from out of state, so no wolves = less business. So of course the outfitter wants wolves in Montana (for the same reason I want Boeing to get the tanker contract).

About enviromentalism: I've read in this thread about "diversity" and "web of life" and "improving riperian habitat." This is all pro+environmental mumbo jumbo that people from Seattle spout everyday to talk about protecting the environment. This isn't Montana speak in the least.

About the person that lives near the beach that wants to protect wolves: How would you feel if I started a shark and jellyfish protecting program? The thing is - of course you want to protect them because it's cool to protect things and the existance of wolves has no negative impact on your life. I could be a proponent of closing off all beaches because of litter and other issues - but that'd upset beach goers.

Anyways, that's my 2 cents.

All fish in the sea should be protected. It is their home....one big, huge aquarium! Enter at your own risk!

[Blondie621]

Ranching for meat is on its way out! I know I do not eat it anymore! We do not have too! I see less and less of it being sold at the grocery stores.

[michael11747]

Originally Posted by Blondie621

All fish in the sea should be protected. It is their home....one big, huge aquarium! Enter at your own risk!

exactly. enter at your own risk. you want to ranch out here? then deal with the wolves. they are here to stay. they were here before you. and your livelihood is not threatened by them. you want to hunt wolves? fine, start talking about management instead of eradication because that will drive the liberals to file multi-million lawsuits which will never let you hunt a wolf, and your problems will get worse.

there are people working for you and your precious elk, but your talk only makes your situation worse for you. unless your attitudes change to find a middleground, there will never be a concession.

and the outfitter which i was talking about has been here since before any of you or your family. i don't care if your white fathers and mothers have been here for 100 years, you are still new to this area. maybe we should send everyone with an extreme viewpoint to some island where they could kill everything in sight and chop down every single tree because they are the top of the food chain.

mumbo jumbo my ***. have you heard of something called science? evolution? that's mumbo jumbo? sounds like a few here are part of the problem and want no part of the solution. seems like someone needs to pick up a book.

i'm so sick of people demonizing other people for being environmentalists. who do you think saved your national forests? who watches over your public lands, and makes sure they are managed correctly? a rancher or logger? wrong. the true hunters i know, the ones who want to hunt wolves, and feed their families with game meat every single year are the ones who want to manage wolves. hunters and environmentalists are the only thing saving montana from being nothing more than a suburban strip mall. with ski resorts for the rich only.

let this recession teach you about real estate, not my words. maybe you will start to realize how much environmentalists and hunters can do to save the open lands in montana and prop up the local economy.

[michael11747]

Originally Posted by Blondie621

Ranching for meat is on its way out! I know I do not eat it anymore! We do not have too! I see less and less of it being sold at the grocery stores.

indeed, this is a topic of many discussions i have had with my colleagues, but do you know what we always come back to? how can we help sustain the ranchers when their meat is no longer in demand. yet these people just want to fight anyone who tells them anything that contradicts their beliefs. they just can't be helped.

land is in demand, taxes are getting higher, some ranchers are liquidating herds to develop their land, but demand has not kept up, do i need to remind you of hay prices? seems like the wolf is the least of your worries. just another misguided belief, just another scapegoat.

[michael11747]

why doesn't everyone just take a chill pill, and let's get back to the topic.