Is Cleveland Similar to Cincinnati (Dayton, Hamilton: best city, loft, credit)

[progmac]

Originally Posted by AGuyFromCleveland18

I've never really been to Cincinnati, but from a historical perspective and a size and demographic perspective they seem very similar. Both have major sports teams but have a metro area of around 2 Million people. Both are about the same age. Both are former industrial cities, with similar problems. But there are definitely a lot of differences. I've heard cincinnati's population is a bit more insular than Cleveland's, and also I know that the city has more southernness about it than cleveland, and it's obviously less liberal. What do you guys here on the ohio forum think?

First, I really like Cleveland. It is a wonderful city with great character.

But, Cleveland and Cincinnati are from historically different ages (or boomed at very different times) and this explains much of the difference. Cincinnati (like St Louis) was an early river town and represented, along with st louis, the country's expansion westward. To give a sense of this, when Cincinnati was booming in 1850, Steel wasn't really used, boats were the best way to travel (the railroad hadn't taken off), the bicycle with the giant front wheel and little back wheel hadn't been invented yet.

Cincinnati, like St Louis, was one of the largest and most influential cities of America in the 19th century.

By the end of the 19th century, Cincinnati would begin its fade from the national stage (the larger Cincinnati bet on canals whereas Chicago bet on the railroad, guess who won?). Cleveland, on the other hand, was roaring to life and would easily overtake Cincinnati as one of the country's most important cities in the 20th century.

The cities are culturally quite different. Cleveland is a strong midwestern city with some obvious east coast influences. Cincinnati also has midwestern character, but also is mildly southern and insular (ie, it is Cincinnatian). I would speculate that when Cleveland was taking off, the movers and shakers kept much closer contact with places like New York and Detroit, freely traveling among the destinations of the day on the railroad; plus moving to and from Cleveland was fairly trivial, keeping the population dynamic. When Cincinnati was booming, travel meant long voyages up and down the Ohio, so it developed much of its culture on its own with fewer influences and less population exchange with other major cities of the day. That is a wild guess, please feel free to critique that interpretation of why things are how they are.

[FriendofCleveland]

Originally Posted by Cbus76

Thank goodness for Cincinnati and Columbus, the two metros in Ohio that continue to show solid growth:

Cincinnati MSA went from 2,009,632 to 2,171,896 (+8.07%) between 2000 and 2009 and their CSA went from 2,050,175 to 2,214,954 (+8.04%).

Columbus MSA went from 1,612,694 to 1,801,848 (+11.73%) between 2000 and 2009 and their CSA went from 1,835,189 to 2,031,229 (+10.68%).

Cleveland MSA went from 2,148,143 to 2,091,286 (-2.65%) between 2000 and 2009 and their CSA went from 2,945,831 to 2,891,988 (-1.83%).

Clevelanders can talk all they want about their supposed superiority relative to the rest of the state, but it seems pretty clear where people want to live - the backwards, hillbilly havens down south.

The growth of both cities has much less to do with either city "being where people want to live" as it does the availability of "JOBS" period.

[jbcmh81]

Originally Posted by FriendofCleveland

The growth of both cities has much less to do with either city "being where people want to live" as it does the availability of "JOBS" period.

Right, there's really nothing remotely redeeming about Cincinnati or Columbus in terms of quality of life. If people weren't forced to come to work for companies that just happened to be located here, they would probably implode under the crippling weight of depression. The President would probably have to institute martial law during the emergency evacuation. Dayton would be a good location for a refugee camp.

[motorman]

Originally Posted by jbcmh81

Right, there's really nothing remotely redeeming about Cincinnati or Columbus in terms of quality of life. If people weren't forced to come to work for companies that just happened to be located here, they would probably implode under the crippling weight of depression. The President would probably have to institute martial law during the emergency evacuation. Dayton would be a good location for a refugee camp.

Yeah! Cincy and C-Bus, just two backwater burgs where only people's jobs keep them chained to their miserable surroundings. Two terrible towns, both! Save yourselves now and flee to the Cleve -- the only real city in Ohio! (and don't forget to bypass Dayton altogether; you'll never miss it) LOL

[Peregrine]

Originally Posted by jbcmh81

Right, there's really nothing remotely redeeming about Cincinnati or Columbus in terms of quality of life. If people weren't forced to come to work for companies that just happened to be located here, they would probably implode under the crippling weight of depression. The President would probably have to institute martial law during the emergency evacuation. Dayton would be a good location for a refugee camp.

Wow. Way to take what he said completely out of context.
In fact I would say he was being somewhat complemntary.
People moved to Cincy and Cbus because there are jobs there. OMG what a terrible thing to say.

[jbcmh81]

Originally Posted by Peregrine

Wow. Way to take what he said completely out of context.
In fact I would say he was being somewhat complemntary.
People moved to Cincy and Cbus because there are jobs there. OMG what a terrible thing to say.

They said that people move much less to the two cities because it's where they want to live, but because there are jobs, implying that other than employment, they wouldn't be moving here to begin with.

[Dayton Sux]

Cleveland is a strong midwestern city with some obvious east coast influences.

Obvious? Not to me. How about some examples of these "east coast influences"?

[tribecavsbrowns]

Originally Posted by jbcmh81

Right, there's really nothing remotely redeeming about Cincinnati or Columbus in terms of quality of life. If people weren't forced to come to work for companies that just happened to be located here, they would probably implode under the crippling weight of depression. The President would probably have to institute martial law during the emergency evacuation. Dayton would be a good location for a refugee camp.

That's not what he said, so how about you lose the self-indulgent sarcasm?

Like I said in the other thread, just a LITTLE bit of a chip on your shoulder, don't you think?

[jbcmh81]

Originally Posted by tribecavsbrowns

That's not what he said, so how about you lose the self-indulgent sarcasm?

Like I said in the other thread, just a LITTLE bit of a chip on your shoulder, don't you think?

Compared to some of you, if I have a chip on my shoulder about my city, some of you have a redwood on yours.

[nickolaseposter]

I think the real answer is that Cleveland and Cincinnati are extremely similar in some categories, and on others they are completely different. Socially, Cincinnati is much more conservative. Cleveland is very...I wouldn't say liberal...I would say democrat. They are conservatively tied down to "D" for some reason. One reason they actually aren't liberal. Cincinnati, however, is a little more liberal although very conservative economically. But when it just comes to infrastructure and size, yes, Cleveland and Cincinnati are similar. They border large bodies of water, they have similar sized downtowns, and they are about the same populations. The biggest difference however, is that Cleveland is very very slowly turning around and Cincinnati is very quickly turning around. You can find a few stores in downtown Cleveland, but nothing extremely upscale like Cincinnati's Macy's, Saks Fifth Avenue, Tiffany and Company, or White House Black Market, etc. I would say Cincinnati has an excellent downtown that is full and nearly turned completely around, however, Cleveland still has 10-15 years before it can be at the level. Once Cleveland begins to take advantage of the lake the way Cincinnati has of the Ohio River, it will become a destination place again.