Do a lot of cities in Ohio still have a lot of mostly White Appalachian ghetto neighborhoods ?

[censusdata]

Originally Posted by sheena12

Did you read "Hillbilly Elegy"? If not, I highly recommend it. As with your family, the writer did well for himself, attending university, becoming a scholar on the subject of Hill People (i.e. Hillbillies) and their transplant decedents, as well as a conservative pundit. It's a well written book, and most of it reads like a novel.

Yes, I read it a few years ago. My childhood is quite similar to Vance's except that he stayed in Ohio but my mom and I moved back to rural KY from Cincinnati when I was 4. I remember living there but didn't attend school before moving. I think one similarity with all migrant peoples is your family support structure takes a large hit when half your family lives many hours away. My dad was actually sent to live with older siblings in OH when he was 15 because he didn't get along with his step mom. So he was in his late teens living 5 hours away from his dad or step mom. He dropped out of school and worked at the factory.

In my family most people who moved North became middle class and indistinguishable from other White Midwesterners. Where I live in Southern Indiana is very interesting in that the White population is 50/50 rural Kentucky transplants and local born German Catholics. There are Little Kentucky neighborhoods here, centered near former large factories. The difference in accents, poverty, etc is really striking.

[ohio_peasant]

Left unmentioned, because it's impolite and perhaps a crass and injurious stereotype, is mention of what kind of NW Europeans are associated with {Appalachia and the southern Midwest}, vs. {New England, Mid Atlantic and Northern Midwest}.

In brief, the former are largely - at least by cultural lore - Scottish, Irish, Welsh and southern-German (Bavarian). The latter are English, Dutch, northern-German, Danish-Norwegian-Swedish (Scandinavian). The former are regarded as being clannish, traditional, leaning towards blue-collar occupations as being honorable and worthy. The latter are regarded as being more cosmopolitan, leaning towards office-occupations or the public-sector, as being honorable and worthy. These differences account, in reality or in perception, for differences in affluence, upward mobility, and attitude toward education.

The southern Midwest, from Missouri through southern Ohio and into central Pennsylvania, is associated with the first kind of NW European. The northern Midwest, from Minnesota through Michigan and Ontario (why exclude Canada?) and dipping into northern Ohio, is associated with the second kind of NW European. Is this just flagrant stereotype, or reality? My belief: a mixture of both.

[ferraris]

Originally Posted by abbottkd71

His account of his life is compelling, but it’s his family’s story, not mine, and it makes me uncomfortable for the same reason this thread does. It perpetuates the idea that Appalachians and their descendants are doomed to live in poverty. That’s simply not true.

Worse than doomed to that fate. It seems the narrative is that Appalachain people choose and embrace the poverty, poor health, and lack of education.

[abbottkd71]

Originally Posted by ferraris

Worse than doomed to that fate. It seems the narrative is that Appalachain people choose and embrace the poverty, poor health, and lack of education.

The narrative of Vance’s book is that hard work, education, and the love and support of his grandmother allowed him to rise above his family’s humble origins. My point is that Vance is hardly the only one. Being a descendant of Appalachia does not mean that one is doomed to poverty, poor health, and poorer education. Plenty of us have entered the middle and upper middle professional classes just as Vance did.

[censusdata]

As far as types of Europeans I think it's less about where they came from, more a difference of early pioneers on the frontier vs urban Europe to urban USA. Sheena's group one have long rural roots moving west along the frontier. It's a settler culture that emphasizes patriotism, hard farm work rather than 'book learning ', and deemphasizes learning diplomatic conflict resolution. Get in a dispute with family or neighbors? Move further out and get away from it.

In contrast later Euro immigrants often moved from European cities directly to US cities without ever living in a frontier area. Town folk by necessity learn diplomacy to thrive living close to others.

[sheena12]

Originally Posted by censusdata

As far as types of Europeans I think it's less about where they came from, more a difference of early pioneers on the frontier vs urban Europe to urban USA. Sheena's group one have long rural roots moving west along the frontier. It's a settler culture that emphasizes patriotism, hard farm work rather than 'book learning ', and deemphasizes learning diplomatic conflict resolution. Get in a dispute with family or neighbors? Move further out and get away from it.

In contrast later Euro immigrants often moved from European cities directly to US cities without ever living in a frontier area. Town folk by necessity learn diplomacy to thrive living close to others.

I think this is true. Plus 1.