Best small town in OK? Moving soon. (Edmond: colleges, living)

[RedTexanTea]

Originally Posted by StillwaterTownie

No, Enid certainly isn't a smaller town as small towns go in Oklahoma. It's actually one of the biggest small towns in Oklahoma.

You will have to pardon my perception of small town compared to yours. Being from Dallas anything under 250,000 population is small town to me. I like options and choices, lots of them. Big small towns no matter where they fall in a particular states ranking when they are not by a major metropolitan area just don't have that many options or choices available.

[Rigeleer]

Laura,

I grew up in Enid. I left in the 70's, but my parents remained until last year. In fact I grew up a few blocks from that apartment you linked and watched it get built. Sad to say, that part of Enid, the "East Side" as we call it, everything east of downtown, has gotten run-down and become the high crime part of town as well as the cheap area. Also, Enid's downtown is not the kind of place you would want to go, not because it's dangerous but because it consists of stores where people don't shop, that is, lawyer offices, antique shops, banks, medical supply stores, places like that rather than mall type stores. When the mall opened in the early 80's, many businesses left downtown, and many others went out of business in the big local depression of the early 80's because of the oil bust. Now the mall itself is almost dead, and almost every store or restaurant is a mile or two west of downtown. It's a strangely lopsided community now.

Socially, Enid is recovering from a big crime wave in the 90's and early 00's due to a meth plague. Because housing was so dirt cheap after the early 80's oil bust and population decline -- we had to sell a relative's house for $5000 in 1987, yes, 5K -- meth-heads and dealers swarmed into Enid and settled into little old houses in the 90's. Oklahoma didn't get around to restricting pseudoephedrine sales until the meth epidemic had lasted a long time and done a lot of damage It's gotten better, but Enid still suffers from the social fallout and still has a meth problem. Lots of robberies, too. Honestly, in that apartment you link, I would expect to find some ex-cons, struggling single moms, some illegals with 6 kids from Mexico, maybe a sex offender or two. I'd keep away.

I can confidently advise you to avoid Enid simply because it's an economically stagnant, low-wage town going nowhere. It's grown only very slowly since I was there. Practically all of the jobs are low-wage and low-skill. The big news in recent years were expansions of the meat-packing plant and the fertilizer plant, which brought in a lot more Mexicans both legal and illegal. Not only would you find it hard to find a job in Enid, but there would be little or no opportunity for career advancement especially in IT.

Socially, it is VERY conservative and evangelical, albeit in a mostly relaxed way. People would be reasonably friendly and accepting, but you might not feel you fit in well. Oklahoma in general is like that, but Enid and all the small cities are more so. I think a young IT person like you would find more friends and a much better social scene in OKC or Tulsa which are purplish counties and where most of the state's educated people go to start their lives and careers.

In general, I suggest moving to some place in America which has had robust population growth in the past decade or two, in order to find good job opportunities. OKC has been growing steadily, with a reasonably low unemployment rate, and while it doesn't have a small-town feel, it is very spread out with a low population density so that many suburbs have a relaxed atmosphere. It has a lot of nice 'burbs. Unfortunately, no place in America built up in the past few decades is very walkable. I'll leave detailed advice on OKC to the OKC folks.

By the way, we Okies like to scare Easterners about the twisters, but don't worry about them. Chances of one specific house getting hit in 100 years are extremely low. But take the tornado sirens seriously...

Best of luck to you!

[SluggoF16]

Originally Posted by Rigeleer

Laura,

... Honestly, in that apartment you link, I would expect to find some ex-cons, struggling single moms, some illegals with 6 kids from Mexico, maybe a sex offender or two. I'd keep away.

I would too. I know the place well, La Fonda Apartments. My wife, when she was my girlfriend, lived in #111, the one in the corner to the left of the left tree. It was an OK place in the mid-80s, but a couple years after she left there was a murder there in the basement laundry area. It DOES have a nice sundeck that is suitable for watching fireworks. A lot of the neighborhood infrastructure is gone now in that area, closed-up shops (the auto parts shop I once bought an alternator from a couple blocks west on Broadway is just a a memory, as are so many places like that).

I do like Enid, every time I go there it's like going back home; I spent perhaps the single most important and tough year of my life there as a student pilot. However, it IS stagnant. It had 72,000 people when I lived there, and after the crush of 1984 it has dropped to ~45,000. Not a lot of growth, and if Vance AFB ever closed, it would sound the death knell of the city.

Downtown Enid does have some advantages over when I lived there (well, nearby, at Vance AFB), it's revitalized a bit. However, still a lot of closed businesses. I was also surprised to see the El Chico on Garriott closed but the same happened to one in Wichita Falls so maybe systemic and not just an Enid closure.

Vance AFB might offer a lot of IT jobs, especially for their simulator training, but given the pay and quality of life for those jobs, they're probably not seeing a lot of turnover for them.

[Rigeleer]

Anyone who remembers Davis Auto Parts, as Sluggo does, knows Enid pretty well! That neighborhood is so depressed that even the 7-11 across the street from Davis closed.

I would absolutely avoid any apartments east of Van Buren. There are a few ok-looking ones on the far west side, but they aren't very walkable because there are no sidewalks since the area was all built in the 80's and later. Many of the main streets on the west side have drainage ditches running next to them rather than sidewalks! There's an apartment complex called Winchester West directly east of the mall that might be fairly walkable. The problem with apartments in Enid is that they fill up with people with a lot of family or economic problems. There are lots of little old houses in Enid going for $20-40K. Mortgage payments would be under $200 a month. So apartments get people who can't qualify or can't afford even that much. There is a lot of hardcore poverty in Enid now. My aunt had neighbors who started stealing water from her garden hose because they got their water cut off for not paying their $20 water bill! I don't at all mean that low-income people are necessarily bad, but in Enid, it pains me to say, there are a lot of low-income people who are that way because the spouse is in jail, or they are recovering addicts or ex-felons. I'm sad to see how the social fabric has been so damaged by the drug epidemic there.

But to repeat my main point, Enid doesn't sound good for any IT person because it doesn't have much IT to start with and it hasn't been growing significantly despite a small boost from the wind farms and fracking. Sluggo is right that Vance might have some, but Vance is a small base as bases go and isn't expected to expand. Enid's happy if Vance can just survive. Every time there is a national round of base-closings, Enid goes into panic mode and hires a lobbyist.

I'm not as familiar with Stillwater, but I was there last summer. I very much agree that Stillwater is worth looking into. First, it's been growing fast in the past 20 years. Second, because it's a student town, it has cheap apartments to cater to students and lower-paid university staff rather than ex-felons and druggies. Third, as I recall, it looked reasonably walkable in a lot of areas. Fourth, I think the crime rate is lower than Enid. And it's a pleasant town in a lot of ways, as Enid is still.

[Johnhw2]

OP I agree you should focus on locations with robust job growth not population growth although they tend to be similar in many cases. Durant is a small town that has a good growing economy. I recommend you take a look at it.. as an earlier poster mentioned the Choctaws influence the economy there in very positive ways as do some large manufactures and some service companies and all these need IT skills. Another area that comes to mbeind is in Arkansas, its the North West Arkansas area where Walmart, Tysons food and HL hunt are HQ's are located. Both wont be lowest cost places in Oklahoma but will be very much lower than the NE even in the finger lakes region but most importantly both areas have robust growing economies with a lot of good jobs. Follow the areas where job growth is strong those companies located to these areas for a lot of the same reasons you should so follow their lead. By the way the NWA area is as party as it gets in this part of the country. With the hills and lakes it wil remind you of Finger lakes only with good job growth too. I believe the cost of iiving in Arkansas overall is similar to Oklahoma over all. These two locations wil be higher cost than the avg but its worth it to increase your good job chances. Both have colleges too which may be part of the reson for the job growth and could be attractive to you for social and continuing education reasons.

Good luck in your decisions

[StillwaterTownie]

Right. I agree northwest AR should be checked out, considering how fast its growing and other positive things. Republicans there know better about running a state than they do in Oklahoma.

Cost of living index looks good there:

Bentonville, AR: 82.7
Fayetteville, AR: 83.5
Stillwater, OK: 86.3

National average is 100.0.

[Johnhw2]

Wow thanks for the COL index. Where did you get them? Id like to add Tulsa and Plano in for my comparison sake..

I'm in NWA now checking it out. Very pretty and very nice, good economy and growth while still got a small town feel with the advantages of a bigger city. Crime stats look good too compared to Tulsa and OKC

[swake]

I would recommend Bartlesville and Tahlequah. Bartlesville first.

They should have a good number of IT jobs with Conoco Phillips and Phillps 66 there. It's got a very nice downtown and overall is a safe town. If you got an apartment near downtown you should be good.

Tahlequah has the capital of the Cherokee Nation and NSU for IT jobs and again is a nice town with a good downtown.

See where you get a job before you move.

[StillwaterTownie]

Originally Posted by Johnhw2

Wow thanks for the COL index. Where did you get them? Id like to add Tulsa and Plano in for my comparison sake..

I'm in NWA now checking it out. Very pretty and very nice, good economy and growth while still got a small town feel with the advantages of a bigger city. Crime stats look good too compared to Tulsa and OKC

You're not already familiar with the vast info citi-data offers for all cities? If not, for an example go to: https://www.city-data.com/city/Tulsa-Oklahoma.html. COL is fairly near the top under races.

[StillwaterTownie]

Originally Posted by swake

I would recommend Bartlesville and Tahlequah. Bartlesville first.

They should have a good number of IT jobs with Conoco Phillips and Phillps 66 there. It's got a very nice downtown and overall is a safe town. If you got an apartment near downtown you should be good.

Tahlequah has the capital of the Cherokee Nation and NSU for IT jobs and again is a nice town with a good downtown.

See where you get a job before you move.

Bartlesville is a pretty strong rival to Stillwater as a good place to live in Oklahoma outside of Oklahoma City and Tulsa metros. Not as much so for Tahlequah.