Retirees have changed Florence (Portland, Coos Bay: appointed, apartment complex, renting)

[Cloudy Dayz]

Originally Posted by texasdiver

Oh, and I suspect the reason you are more likely to see things like new Burger Kings along the coast rather than small quaint locally owned restaurants is the cost. It takes pretty deep pockets to navigate the gauntlet of bureaucracy that the state and localities throw up to regulate new restaurants in places like the OR coast. Old “grandfathered” businesses that have been around for decades are a bit different. But making a new one is tough. It is pretty much only the corporate chains that have those kinds of resources these days. Personally if I was going to start a new restaurant someplace in OR it would probably be in some fast-growing prosperous suburban area, not the coast. That is where the money and demand is. Not to mention the resources and labor.

The Burger King in Florence is there to cater to the tourists. If not for the tourists, there wouldn't be a Burger King or much of anything else in Florence. The entire town only has a population of less then 9,000 people. Without tourism there would be a half dozen restaurants in Florence, tops.

I don't think it would be that hard to start a new restaurant, but you would have to cater to tourists, or you wouldn't have enough customers. I see many mom and pop restaurants operating on shoe string budgets on the coast. These people would never be able to operate in the city, where rent for a hole in the wall place would cost $10,000 a month. And to support that rent, they would need to have a lot business and a lot of employees at $15 or $20 an hour. In the San Francisco Bay Area I saw a lot of fairly popular restaurants close because they just couldn't keep up with operating expenses. So it might seem like a great idea to open a restaurant in a fast-growing prosperous suburban area, but you better have deep pockets to keep up with the operating costs.

[texasdiver]

Originally Posted by Cloudy Dayz

The Burger King in Florence is there to cater to the tourists. If not for the tourists, there wouldn't be a Burger King or much of anything else in Florence. The entire town only has a population of less then 9,000 people. Without tourism there would be a half dozen restaurants in Florence, tops.

I don't think it would be that hard to start a new restaurant, but you would have to cater to tourists, or you wouldn't have enough customers. I see many mom and pop restaurants operating on shoe string budgets on the coast. These people would never be able to operate in the city, where rent for a hole in the wall place would cost $10,000 a month. And to support that rent, they would need to have a lot business and a lot of employees at $15 or $20 an hour. In the San Francisco Bay Area I saw a lot of fairly popular restaurants close because they just couldn't keep up with operating expenses. So it might seem like a great idea to open a restaurant in a fast-growing prosperous suburban area, but you better have deep pockets to keep up with the operating costs.

There are a bazillion "mom and pop" restaurants in urban and suburban OR and WA. They just aren't mom and pop "Smith," they are mom and pop "Nguyen" or "Garcia". I have dozens of Thai, Vietnamese, Mexican, Indian, Salvadoran, etc. etc. restaurants tucked away in nondescript strip malls all over my suburban area.

But yes, the coast is a tourist economy. That is why it is difficult to maintain any kind of business like a restaurant there. Tourist business is spotty and seasonal. A Thai restaurant in suburban Tigard or Salem might still do brisk business on a cold rainy Wed evening in November or February. A chowder spot on the coast? Not so much.

[Silverfall]

Originally Posted by Metlakatla

So how do they end up liking Salem, do you know?

So far so good. They are all still here and seem like they are acclimating okay.

One of my clients said living in her Florence community was like living in a graveyard. No one talked to each other or were ever outside. So that was a requirement for their purchase here. A neighborhood where people were out and about, talking, etc.

Another one just required that they not be anywhere where they could hear guns. I think they must have been closer to the gun range out there. I don't think they expected Florence to be "rural" like that. Again, I think they thought they were moving to an up-and-coming Malibu or something.

When people tell me they are considering the Oregon Coast, I do my best to encourage them to rent for 6-12 months before buying something out there. In general, people from out of state tend to romanticize Oregon, but the coast is especially bad on that front.

[Metlakatla]

Originally Posted by texasdiver

There are a bazillion "mom and pop" restaurants in urban and suburban OR and WA. They just aren't mom and pop "Smith," they are mom and pop "Nguyen" or "Garcia". I have dozens of Thai, Vietnamese, Mexican, Indian, Salvadoran, etc. etc. restaurants tucked away in nondescript strip malls all over my suburban area.

But yes, the coast is a tourist economy. That is why it is difficult to maintain any kind of business like a restaurant there. Tourist business is spotty and seasonal. A Thai restaurant in suburban Tigard or Salem might still do brisk business on a cold rainy Wed evening in November or February. A chowder spot on the coast? Not so much.

I recall a rainy Monday night in the middle of winter when we couldn't get a table in Old Town without a reservation. It's always packed down there unless it's absolutely raging outside.

One of the things Florence actually does have going for it is that it doesn't board everything up after the last tourist leaves in the fall. It's different from Cannon Beach that way. No matter what time of year, even getting a parking place on Bay Street is next to impossible. There are probably a few tourist traps that wouldn't make it if it weren't for the seasonal visitors, but I think you'd be surprised at how many of these indie restaurants have loyal local followings.

[Metlakatla]

Originally Posted by Cloudy Dayz

For those who think there are too many California retirees in Florence, just wait until In-N-Out gets around to opening a location in Florence. Then all hell is going to break lose and the flood gates will be open.

In-and-Out will have to bring their own employees. Those burgers won't cook themselves, and there's no working-class housing here anymore.

[texasdiver]

Originally Posted by Metlakatla

I recall a rainy Monday night in the middle of winter when we couldn't get a table in Old Town without a reservation. It's always packed down there unless it's absolutely raging outside.

One of the things Florence actually does have going for it is that it doesn't board everything up after the last tourist leaves in the fall. It's different from Cannon Beach that way. No matter what time of year, even getting a parking place on Bay Street is next to impossible. There are probably a few tourist traps that wouldn't make it if it weren't for the seasonal visitors, but I think you'd be surprised at how many of these indie restaurants have loyal local followings.

My daughter spent the last 6 months living and working in Pacific City. The lack of good eating places was once of her biggest complaints. Other than the hugely overpriced tourist trap that is the Pelican Brewery, there was basically no place decent for locals to eat and they usually ended up driving down to Lincoln City to find options. So I suspect Florence is more the exception than the rule.

[Silverfall]

Originally Posted by texasdiver

My daughter spent the last 6 months living and working in Pacific City. The lack of good eating places was once of her biggest complaints. Other than the hugely overpriced tourist trap that is the Pelican Brewery, there was basically no place decent for locals to eat and they usually ended up driving down to Lincoln City to find options. So I suspect Florence is more the exception than the rule.

Pacific City is like 1,000 people or so. Florence has to be coming up on 10k so it is more of a small, functioning city like many in the valley where locals can help to support the local businesses and not just tourists.

I do love Pelican's Raspberry beer. One of my favorite summer seasonal beers, but yes it would be too expensive for locals to eat there regularly.

[Metlakatla]

Originally Posted by texasdiver

My daughter spent the last 6 months living and working in Pacific City. The lack of good eating places was once of her biggest complaints. Other than the hugely overpriced tourist trap that is the Pelican Brewery, there was basically no place decent for locals to eat and they usually ended up driving down to Lincoln City to find options. So I suspect Florence is more the exception than the rule.

What Silverfall said. This is a real town, not a podunk 1,000 citizen tourist trap, and we even have a couple of Thai restaurants. I suspect that Astoria, Lincoln City, Newport, and North Bend/Coos Bay, and Brookings are also exceptions to whatever "rule" you're trying to say exists.

Look, I live here. No offense intended, but I doubt if you've ever done anything more than pass through Florence on Highway 101. Sorry about your daughter's experience, but it's a false equivalency.

[Metlakatla]

Originally Posted by Silverfall

So far so good. They are all still here and seem like they are acclimating okay.

One of my clients said living in her Florence community was like living in a graveyard. No one talked to each other or were ever outside. So that was a requirement for their purchase here. A neighborhood where people were out and about, talking, etc.

Another one just required that they not be anywhere where they could hear guns. I think they must have been closer to the gun range out there. I don't think they expected Florence to be "rural" like that. Again, I think they thought they were moving to an up-and-coming Malibu or something.

Where people tell me they are considering the Oregon Coast, I do my best to encourage them to rent for 6-12 months before buying something out there. In general, people from out of state tend to romanticize Oregon, but the coast is especially bad on that front.

That's funny, because, weather permitting, people are outside all the time in my neighborhood, working in their yards and stuff, and we talk to each other. But I can see the situation you describe in some of the more snootier subdivisions here. I bought some bookcases from a couple who were moving out of Florence for the same reasons. They couldn't wait to get out of here.

The gun range is up north of town. I never hear it, but people who live up that way complain about it a lot.

I agree with suggesting that people rent here first, but they'll likely have to go the Airbnb route because normal rentals just don't exist here. I would also suggest that they rent during the winter and get the whole picture.

[texasdiver]

Originally Posted by Metlakatla

What Silverfall said. This is a real town, not a podunk 1,000 citizen tourist trap. I suspect that Astoria, Lincoln City, Newport, and North Bend/Coos Bay, and Brookings are also exceptions to whatever "rule" you're trying to say exists.

Look, I live here. No offense intended, but I doubt if you've ever done anything more than pass through Florence on Highway 101. Sorry about your daughter's experience, but it's a false equivalency.

No, you are right. I have never lived in Florence. I did live in Newport for a spell back years ago when I was working for NOAA. But not Florence. My comments were more about the coast in general, not Florence in particular. Most of the coast looks a lot more like Pacific City.