Why does it seem like everyones kids are really smart now?
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As a retired teacher, I saw many changes put in place over the years that were targeted at trying to help the bottom 25% of students "succeed." The sad thing is, most of these students were going to struggle no matter what interventions were put into place due to factors outside the school system's control (poverty, terrible home life, no parental support, etc.)
This isn't to say everything shouldn't be done to try to support all students and give them a good education, but I disagree with the concept that highly motivated students should be sacrificed for this goal, and that is what has happened.
Some things I saw various schools implement:
-Where classes like math and ELA used to be offered at honors (pre-AP), advanced, regular levels, the principal went in and changed it to where the only two offerings on campus would be regular or pre-AP. Her argument was that by separating out the lowest level students from the best students on campus, we weren't providing them with role models. So at that point, as a parent, you had to choose if you wanted your child to be a pre-AP student, or in regular level. For some that work was too hard and they struggled and there was then also pressure on the teachers who had formerly truly taught those courses at a pre-AP level to water it down to include the former middle level advanced kids who now didn't want to get stuck in the regular level classes.
-Policies where teachers were not allowed to fail kids below a 50. Teachers had to give unlimited opportunities to make work up. The responsibility changed from when I first started teaching (and like it was when I was a kid) where students being required to copy work assignments off the blackboard into a journal and keep track of their work THEMSELVES, into teachers being required to post EVERY homework and class assignment online. It became a "gotcha" thing for parents where instead of them getting on their child for not doing their homework, they went to the principal because the teacher didn't have the math worksheet scanned and up on the website where Johnny could download it when he lost it. So dumbing down of responsibilities for kids, teachers handing out easier A's to avoid conflict with helicopter parents due to bad climate by admin designed not to hold kids responsible for doing their own work.
-Too much focus by admin on making the numbers look good as far as discipline and "stats" go rather than supporting teachers in the classroom. i.e. not wanting to suspend or discipline students of a certain group due to the state tracking that data so the student is sent back to class to continue disrupting learning for all.
Sounds to me like you didn't like being held accountable?!
Having all the assignments online is a really good thing. You are measuring their learning, not their executive function skills, of which many teens are lacking.
I do agree with you about the first part. In our public school you had two levels, honors and baby-sitting. Our child couldn't get into the honors so we sure weren't going to send him where no learning was taking place.
The simple truth is the bottom 25% of students do not matter.
Across all the disciplines - physics, literature, mathematics, fine arts, economics, psychology, chemistry, engineering, performing arts, history, sociology, computer science, political science, cosmology, religion, etc etc etc -- across all the disciplines, true breakthroughs & progress is the result of the extraordinary efforts of a tiny percentage of truly remarkable people. Ninety-nine percent of us do not matter. We are just along for the ride.
Well if you leave children behind, you get more crime and dependency.
And the 1% need people who can actually implement things, not just dream them up.
Actually what I see is that being in the top 10% is a choice. People get to choose whether or not that is what they want, but most opt for whatever is the easiest route, and no, I suppose they don't matter much in the overall scheme of things. Many of the cogs are interchangeable. It's probably less than 1% of the population who really make a difference in life that very few people would have thought of or managed to carry off.
oh that's funny. So anyone gets to just decide whether they want to be whatever this top 10% is.
Sounds to me like you didn't like being held accountable?!
Having all the assignments online is a really good thing. You are measuring their learning, not their executive function skills, of which many teens are lacking.
Part of the job is to train those executive function skills. Which won't happen is someone else has to do their that part for them. Kids need to learn those things.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bu2
Well if you leave children behind, you get more crime and dependency.
And the 1% need people who can actually implement things, not just dream them up.
If you drag everyone down, then you just get more of that dependent class rather than less. As for implementation, that's the middle 50%. The botton group isn't going to implement anything; just take from those who do.
Quote:
Originally Posted by msRB311
oh that's funny. So anyone gets to just decide whether they want to be whatever this top 10% is.
You get to decide whether to put forth the effort or not. You can play the game or sit on the sidelines and complain about the players on the field while blaming the coach.
Part of the job is to train those executive function skills. Which won't happen is someone else has to do their that part for them. Kids need to learn those things.
If you drag everyone down, then you just get more of that dependent class rather than less. As for implementation, that's the middle 50%. The botton group isn't going to implement anything; just take from those who do.
You get to decide whether to put forth the effort or not. You can play the game or sit on the sidelines and complain about the players on the field while blaming the coach.
No, people with learning disabilities don't get to decide. We're talking about kids right? They often don't even know what they are trying for.
oh that's funny. So anyone gets to just decide whether they want to be whatever this top 10% is.
Absolutely yes. There is nothing in school and no sort of job that the average person can not learn if they put a little effort in. If a person can not at least make a comfortable living, at some point in their life they made the decision that they would not make any effort to learn and they would try to skate through life and fake it to get by. There are very few jobs where a person must have some sort of special talent that they were born with, and even those people work hard to get where they are.
Baring disabilities, everyone has the equal chance of a good salaried job. And even persons with disabilities can often make it if they apply enough will power. The reason the average person doesn't have that lifestyle is because they don't want to make the effort... or perhaps they are content with what they have (and nothing wrong with that as long as they aren't howling with jealousy because someone else has more than they have)
I think parents play a large role here as well. If you have a learning disability and living in a poorer area with parents that are of no help..you're probably not going fare well.
It's nice that everyone here has such positive attitudes, but they aren't realistic. You also only get one chance in school to do well. You can't go back.
I'm wondering if schools just grade easier now or whats up, but everyone I grew up with seems to have kids on the honor roll. Even kids from parents who weren't that bright. I have a friend I grew up with who was not bright in all ways and I don't think the women he married is either, yet their kids all seem to make really great grades. I'm wondering if its just coincidences or if schools give out A's easier now or if the next generation of kids is just smarter for some reason?
I don't currently know anyone from my childhood who didn't perform well academically.
I lost touch with those kids eons ago. It would be kind of interesting to see what happened to them.
I guess I should go to my high school reunion some day.
I think the problem is that we get so hyperfocused on a number and a grade. I'd honestly agree with Mogul that it's the top 1% that is going to do most of the changing in a given academic area. I might broaden that to top 10% or even 20%, but the concept is the same. The problem is we use such a narrow array of subjects.
Good students are defined as those that are good at English and Math. If the subject criteria were broadened and it became ok to not ace everything, it really might help students more and push them forward in areas where they excel....or frankly, where they have good teachers/instruction plans.
Since teachers have had to forfeit control of their classrooms, it may make more sense to break classes into simple concept courses on a very utilitarian basis and further break the presentations up to either rotating live ones or where interest is smaller, into shared interactive courses. Almost like merit badges.
When you think of what every human needs to do every day, you have personal health and wellness, cooking, home economics, transportation, reading, basic mathematics and law obedience. Get everyone well learned in their basics and progress from there. One kid may take more courses than another. If the schedule allows, they can also be at different times. If a kid is a discipline problem, they get kicked out of that area. If they can't make it, it's not really punitive. For graduation, they graduate with a diploma and distinction in different areas.
This would help to identify the tops in areas that require universities for further studies, or vocational schools. But it would also help with those taking different paths. My wife does alterations. Learning to sew has been out of style for so long that it's become an in demand career again. There would be no reason why someone could not take basic home ec, fashion courses, clothing repairs, alterations courses, fabric cleaning course, maybe upholstery courses, event awareness etc....to come out of high school with a well rounded education. Suddenly that person has something to sell in the workplace.
Same with custodial arts. The profession has been dragged down by non-professionals forever. But what if you had enough science to know various cleaning situations, starting with home health, how to handle infectious disease items, waste disposal methods, HVAC filtration, alarms, different tools to be used for further automation etc. No doubt innovation in the area would increase. Workplaces would be cleaner. Organization would increase, etc.
By singling out STEM and then showing STEM as innovation center overlooks the fact that there are other areas that could get better....but those areas will never go beyond what is inherent as there will never be a supply of skilled people in it.
Reading, Writing and Arithmetic have one thing in common. They can be taught on a chalkboard. When education decisions are made at the Federal level, that basically means the least educated (politicians) will be determining what goes forward. Allowing innovation in education would have outstanding benefits....and allow students to find where they are the top 1-20% in what areas.
............You also only get one chance in school to do well. You can't go back.
Not strictly true. Life is easier for those who apply themselves at school and learn the topics at the time they are first presented, but it is never too late to go back and learn the things you have missed.
A lifetime of bad decisions often starts at the elementary school level and that is when a good set of parents is helpful. If they understand how important it is, they can try to make a child study. If parents don't care, the decision, good or bad, is all for the child to make. Even if the child has good parents, if the child decides they won't learn, it isn't possible to force a child to learn.
But anyone who spent their school years goofing off, can go back and get the education. It's harder to do. It takes some determination, but it can be done, and the schooling is available for those who want it.
I'm going to give one example. Rare, perhaps, because few people have this amount of drive and determination, but it can be done if a person makes the decision and sicks to it.
My mother was a certified reading specialist who did tutoring of students with reading disabilities. A 40 year old man came to her because he could not read or write. 40 years old and he owned a multi-million dollar delivery company that he started completely from scratch, but he could barely write his own name. There are ways to overcome dyslexia and my mother taught him how to read. That man had a lot of will power to seek out a teacher and admit he could not read because of a disability, but he decided to do it and he figured out how to do it, and he did it.
Not easy, but not impossible.
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