Could downtown Phoenix finally get an entertainment district? (apartment, condos)

[Bondurant]

That thing in Denver is a glorified mall. Overpriced too. I went to see Public Enemies at the United Artists theater. Matinee show and it was the most expensive ticket I ever purchased at a movie. Ticket seller actually apologized for their prices. Good kid.

[Maroon197]

Originally Posted by Bondurant

That thing in Denver is a glorified mall. Overpriced too. I went to see Public Enemies at the United Artists theater. Matinee show and it was the most expensive ticket I ever purchased at a movie. Ticket seller actually apologized for their prices. Good kid.

Thankfully we have more authentic urban spaces here in Phoenix, like cityscape and Arizona center.

[Valley Native]

Originally Posted by Voebe

If by "entertainment district" they mean theaters and galleries and nice restaurants, great. If they mean bars, as Scottsdale has, then be careful what you wish for.

I'd like to see something like this also, but it wouldn't quite qualify as an entertainment district because of its rather limited target audience. A true entertainment district would be something which draws large crowds during all times of the day & night from within the metro area & beyond. Forget Denver's downtown mall. A better example would be Fremont Street Experience in Las Vegas, which is about the only thing in their downtown area that is a major tourist attraction.

It should be a place that is exciting & fun which people would actually want to go downtown to experience. It should not be another replica of CityScape or AZ Center ... both of which are rather limited in their offerings, and AZ Center has been allowed to become a failure. In any event, I hope the plans for this latest project fully materialize, unlike what happened to the proposed Jackson Street Entertainment District circa 2007, and the one proposed in 2018 which also went nowhere.

[locolife]

Originally Posted by Maroon197

First Friday is legitimately one of the worst events I’ve ever been to. Junk swap meet art, people blasting competing music over one another, crazy religious and political groups shouting on megaphones, and hordes of people wandering aimlessly with nothing to do. Roosevelt is a nice area, but it’s a complete joke to argue that it’s better than a huge cohesive urban zone like 16th street. Denver has multiple urban areas that are miles better than anything in Phoenix, and denver isn’t even known for being a standout city in that regard.

A cohesive urban zone? You mean the street with buses running down the middle of it because it's obviously not walk-able? Yes, that is exemplary urban fabric. Full of chain stores and restaurants, yay... I'll take the "less coheisve urban Roosevelt" with places like Modified Arts, MADE, and MonOrchid.

No thanks to the 16th street mall for me. There are better parts of Denver and I'll take Roosevelt Row over that any day of the week. Besides, if that's what you want that experience just go to Kierland or Scottsdale Quarter across the street, you won't have to encounter any homelessness there I can almost guarantee it.

[locolife]

Originally Posted by Valley Native

I'd like to see something like this also, but it wouldn't quite qualify as an entertainment district because of its rather limited target audience. A true entertainment district would be something which draws large crowds during all times of the day & night from within the metro area & beyond. Forget Denver's downtown mall. A better example would be Fremont Street Experience in Las Vegas, which is about the only thing in their downtown area that is a major tourist attraction.

It should be a place that is exciting & fun which people would actually want to go downtown to experience. It should not be another replica of CityScape or AZ Center ... both of which are rather limited in their offerings, and AZ Center has been allowed to become a failure. In any event, I hope the plans for this latest project fully materialize, unlike what happened to the proposed Jackson Street Entertainment District circa 2007, and the one proposed in 2018 which also went nowhere.

Note the years on your referenced failures, just before major economic downturns in both cases. The first being the housing crisis the second being COVID. Hopefully the timing this time is different but we won't know for a while.

[Maroon197]

Originally Posted by locolife

A cohesive urban zone? You mean the street with buses running down the middle of it because it's obviously not walk-able? Yes, that is exemplary urban fabric. Full of chain stores and restaurants, yay... I'll take the "less coheisve urban Roosevelt" with places like Modified Arts, MADE, and MonOrchid.

No thanks to the 16th street mall for me. There are better parts of Denver and I'll take Roosevelt Row over that any day of the week. Besides, if that's what you want that experience just go to Kierland or Scottsdale Quarter across the street, you won't have to encounter any homelessness there I can almost guarantee it.

This is a goofy straw man argument. 16th street is light years better than phoenix’s sad version (cityscape) and Denver’s more “authentic” neighborhoods blow Roosevelt out of the water. Even LODO is better than anything we have. Roosevelt is quickly becoming a soulless generic luxury mid rise apartment wasteland and is attracting more chains like pedal haus. Also, suggesting that having buses running means that an area isn’t walkable is laughable. That’s like arguing the magnificent mile in chicago isn’t walkable, or that mill ave isn’t walkable because it has a trolley system.

There is a place for all kinds of urban development, including both chains and local businesses. I would welcome it all, but phx has consistently lacked the vision and leadership to make these things happen on a large scale. We need to retire the phrase “yeah but it’s so much better than it used to be” and just focus on making it actually good/great.

[locolife]

Originally Posted by Maroon197

This is a goofy straw man argument. 16th street is light years better than phoenix’s sad version (cityscape) and Denver’s more “authentic” neighborhoods blow Roosevelt out of the water. Even LODO is better than anything we have. Roosevelt is quickly becoming a soulless generic luxury mid rise apartment wasteland and is attracting more chains like pedal haus. Also, suggesting that having buses running means that an area isn’t walkable is laughable. That’s like arguing the magnificent mile in chicago isn’t walkable, or that mill ave isn’t walkable because it has a trolley system.

There is a place for all kinds of urban development, including both chains and local businesses. I would welcome it all, but phx has consistently lacked the vision and leadership to make these things happen on a large scale. We need to retire the phrase “yeah but it’s so much better than it used to be” and just focus on making it actually good/great.

I actually like Denver but the over-hype is odd to me. You don't think this argument is goofy? "Roosevelt is full of generic mid-rise apartments but LODO is better than anything we have in Phoenix?"

Actual street shot of LODO from Google Map showing generic mid-rise apartments:

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.7571...7i16384!8i8192

Versus the Roosevelt Area in Phoenix:

https://www.google.com/maps/@33.4574...7i16384!8i8192

[Hschlick84]

Lodo in Denver will blow anything away anything that Phoenix has. Also, the RiNo (River North Art District) development has been a big impact over the last decade. Drive down 38th Ave and Brighton Blvd and you'll see. There's tons of urban development in that area, Phoenix doesn't have anything to compare.

https://www.denver.org/neighborhoods...-art-district/

[Valley Native]

Originally Posted by locolife

Note the years on your referenced failures, just before major economic downturns in both cases. The first being the housing crisis the second being COVID. Hopefully the timing this time is different but we won't know for a while.

I strongly disagree because the housing crisis and COVID were just excuses for why those developments couldn't get started (and you know what they say about excuses). When the economy became prosperous again after those two incidents, didn't you ever wonder why those postponed/canceled projects weren't revived and fulfilled? The fact is that too many of these proposals have never come to fruition as promised ... so in that respect, I agree with Maroon that Phoenix tends to over promise & under deliver.

BTW, both of those downturns could have been prevented, or lessened at the very least. The 2008 recession was a major blow to Phoenix's economy because we focused too heavily on real estate, sunshine, retirees, and cheap living. Our economy was lacking the diversity that could have made the downturn a lot less harsh. COVID didn't cause the 2020 economy to go into a slump ... it was the government's reactions to COVID! There was absolutely no reason to force certain businesses to shut down or restrict services, basic products to become so scarce, and the stay at home mandates. All the stimulus spending was just a wound kisser, but it added trillions to the already overly burdened debt, and that's one big reason why we have this out of control inflation.

[locolife]

Originally Posted by Hschlick84

Lodo in Denver will blow anything away anything that Phoenix has. Also, the RiNo (River North Art District) development has been a big impact over the last decade. Drive down 38th Ave and Brighton Blvd and you'll see. There's tons of urban development in that area, Phoenix doesn't have anything to compare.

https://www.denver.org/neighborhoods...-art-district/

Phoenix doesn't have anything to compare to Rino? Really?

https://www.visitphoenix.com/greater...roosevelt-row/
https://ktar.com/story/673557/phoeni...neighborhoods/