Oregon’s Stupid No Salt Policy (Portland: sales, to buy, sales tax)

[Luckystrike1]

I'm with the OP. Worrying about "salt" is asinine when these conditions occur so seldom here. Plowing is about useless unless the accumulation gets high enough to form deep grooves that stop cars (as happened in 2008).

[leastprime]

Salt is not very effective with wet snow.
I am glad that I don't have rust issues even though most cars have better corrosion resistance.

[Hockeygirl063]

Originally Posted by ccjarider

The amount of deicing salt Portland would require in an average winter to keep the roads SAFE would do no damage to anything. Agree it is a stupid policy for a public dept. charged with maintaining road safety to not keep roads safe.

To argue damage to roads, vegetation and cars is silly. You ever been to the midwest or east coast? They have roads and vegetation just like here.

I agree salt is bad environmentally however the amount used in any given winter in Portland would have very low effect. Therefore they should use it. I am pretty upset about the crap that went down yesterday especially with the schools. Much of this would of been avoided if salt had been used

[ormari]

Originally Posted by Luckystrike1

I'm with the OP. Worrying about "salt" is asinine when these conditions occur so seldom here. Plowing is about useless unless the accumulation gets high enough to form deep grooves that stop cars (as happened in 2008).

The fact that icy/snowy conditions occur so seldomly is an argument against doing it. Equipping the city and state with equipment to distribute the salt and employing operators to spread it costs money. Importing salt and strategically placing it around the state costs money. Salt storage requires real estate dedicated to the purpose; this also costs money. Given how infrequently these events occur, it is difficult to see that a cost-benefit analysis would justify the practice, even exclusive of the environmental costs.

[notnamed]

Yeah 2-3 snow days a year is not worth the investment. The focus here is on individual responsibility with everyone expected to carry chains or have winter tires.

[oregonwoodsmoke]

Originally Posted by notnamed

Yeah 2-3 snow days a year is not worth the investment. The focus here is on individual responsibility with everyone expected to carry chains or have winter tires.

Or call in sick for 3 days if you can't manage to drive in the snow. I just checked the weather cams on trip check and the roads in Portland are clear. My truck driver son says pavement is dry in Portland and no traffic because it appears that everyone stayed home.

[Hockeygirl063]

Originally Posted by ormari

The fact that icy/snowy conditions occur so seldomly is an argument against doing it. Equipping the city and state with equipment to distribute the salt and employing operators to spread it costs money. Importing salt and strategically placing it around the state costs money. Salt storage requires real estate dedicated to the purpose; this also costs money. Given how infrequently these events occur, it is difficult to see that a cost-benefit analysis would justify the practice, even exclusive of the environmental costs.

you make some great points that i didn't really think of thanks for your input. :-)

[Cloudy Dayz]

Oregon is right.

What Happens to All the Salt We Dump On the Roads?

In the U.S., road crews scatter about 137 pounds of salt per person annually to melt ice. Where does it go after that?

Because the freezing point of salty water is a lower temperature than pure water, scattering some salt atop ice or snow can help accelerate the melting process, opening up the roads to traffic that much sooner. It's estimated that more than 22 million tons of salt are scattered on the roads of the U.S. annually—about 137 pounds of salt for every American.

But all that salt has to go somewhere. After it dissolves—and is split into sodium and chloride ions—it gets carried away via runoff and deposited into both surface water (streams, lakes and rivers) and the groundwater under our feet.

Consider how easily salt can corrode your car. Unsurprisingly, it's also a problem for the surrounding environment—so much that in 2004, Canada categorized road salt as a toxin and placed new guidelines on its use. And as more and more of the U.S. becomes urbanized and suburbanized, and as a greater number of roads criss-cross the landscape, the mounting piles of salt we dump on them may be getting to be a bigger problem than ever.

Data from long-term studies of watersheds bear this out. A group of scientists that tracked salt levels from 1952 to 1998 in the Mohawk River in Upstate New York, for instance, found that concentrations of sodium and chloride increased by 130 and 243 percent, respectively, with road salting the primary reason as the surround area became more developed. More recently, a study of a stream in southeastern New York State that was monitored from 1986 to 2005 found a similar pattern, with significant annual increases and road salting to blame for an estimated 91 percent of sodium chloride in the watershed.

What Happens to All the Salt We Dump On the Roads?

[ccjarider]

Originally Posted by Terryj

Yes, I've been to the midwest and east coast, you can see the effects of salting the roads and the damages it does to vehicles. As for vegetation, where do think that salt goes when it is sprayed onto the sides for the roads by plow trucks and vehicles. FYI, it goes into the soil and that where it stays.

Vegation GROWS allt he time. WHO cares about salt on road weeds or trees???

It's not like Portland has a shortage of stuff growing around here. This is not a logical argument.

For the amount of salt that would be needed here, it is asinine to worry about superficial "damage" compared to safety.

"THINK OF THE CHILDREN!"

[ccjarider]

Originally Posted by oregonwoodsmoke

Let me guess. Another incomer trying to change Oregon into the state he fled.

Not going to happen until you and yours outnumber locals a lot more than you do already.

Salt on the roads is bad for the ecology. It's bad for the water table, bad for the rivers, bad for the condition of the roads, and it destroys cars. So no thank you. If you can't live without salt on the roads, you are free to move to another location where they do salt the roads. Or you are welcome to put better tires on your car, invest in chains, or learn to drive in the snow.

Actually people in other parts of country are MUCH better at driving in snow that Portlanders.

While you seem to always bring out the "Don't change Oregon" argument, it is stupid to not look at any change because "That's the way we've always done it."

Repeating what others have said, the amount of salt needed here would be superfluous and not effect ANYTHING, except safety and time/frustration in those few annual moments when needed.

I think there is an interesting legal argument to make should someone get killed or maimed. Could one sue a municipality as the are clearly negligent in their duties to provide public with safe conditions?