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But fishbrains and Sonic are right. Just talk to people without focusing on whether it will lead to a sexual encounter. All types of people. I am a person who was horrifically shy and socially awkward who got over it by asking people questions about themselves. People are much more focused on themselves than anyone else. .
Yes-- it's a double bonus: people like you when you give them the chance to talk about themselves (and seem interested in/pay attention to the answers-- even better if you remember some detail the next time you talk, like "so how did your mom's surgery go?" or "did you ever start flute lessons like you mentioned you wanted to?"), and it keeps them talking so you don't have to try to come up with something to say, lol. (Obviously you can't do this all the time and never put in anything yourself, or you'll end up with the sort of friends who like to hear themselves talk and like you because you're a sounding board, rather than valuing your input, but there are ways to turn someone's monologue into a conversation if they're not a narcissist.)
(I used to write for the newspaper in college, so I use an old tactic I used in interviews, of making mental notes of things the person says that can be lead-ins to new questions. For example, a recent small-talk conversation I was having with someone was starting to fizzle, BUT, since he had just mentioned gardening a couple times, it was easy to say, "so, what do you grow?" And for the next ten minutes he was telling me about the various things he planted, his gardening techniques, showing me pictures of his greenhouse, etc. From there I could've sprung off into any number of things, like "how do you keep worms off your tomatoes" or "how did you build the greenhouse" or "what's this plant I see over in the corner of your photo?")
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Originally Posted by ocnjgirl
I just want to re-emphasize your point of simply talking to people for the sake of talking to people, men women etc. Improving social skills and most of all increasing comfort with talking to people is going to have a lot more results than reading some book about how to approach a woman. It won’t feel like such a huge deal to talk to a woman if you can talk to others with ease. The only way to increase that comfort is to talk to people.
And it won't seem as creepy as it would if the only people you talk to are women whose pants you want to get into... (Not to mention, it's easier to find someone whose pants you want to get into if you can start to like someone based on who they are-- which requires getting to know them-- rather than only limiting yourself to being interested in people who make your heart (or pants) go aflutter just by looking at them.)
Yes-- it's a double bonus: people like you when you give them the chance to talk about themselves (and seem interested in/pay attention to the answers-- even better if you remember some detail the next time you talk, like "so how did your mom's surgery go?" or "did you ever start flute lessons like you mentioned you wanted to?"), and it keeps them talking so you don't have to try to come up with something to say, lol. (Obviously you can't do this all the time and never put in anything yourself, or you'll end up with the sort of friends who like to hear themselves talk and like you because you're a sounding board, rather than valuing your input, but there are ways to turn someone's monologue into a conversation if they're not a narcissist.)
(I used to write for the newspaper in college, so I use an old tactic I used in interviews, of making mental notes of things the person says that can be lead-ins to new questions. For example, a recent small-talk conversation I was having with someone was starting to fizzle, BUT, since he had just mentioned gardening a couple times, it was easy to say, "so, what do you grow?" And for the next ten minutes he was telling me about the various things he planted, his gardening techniques, showing me pictures of his greenhouse, etc. From there I could've sprung off into any number of things, like "how do you keep worms off your tomatoes" or "how did you build the greenhouse" or "what's this plant I see over in the corner of your photo?")
And it won't seem as creepy as it would if the only people you talk to are women whose pants you want to get into... (Not to mention, it's easier to find someone whose pants you want to get into if you can start to like someone based on who they are-- which requires getting to know them-- rather than only limiting yourself to being interested in people who make your heart (or pants) go aflutter just by looking at them.)
Yep! Regarding your first point made... I moved from CO to AZ last year. I had pro movers involved. I've learned in the past that it's a good thing if your movers like you, and it's a bit of a dance to optimize this. I prepped the house beforehand, since I was doing the packing I staged all of the boxes in one room near the door to take them out to the truck, I disassembled furniture as best as I could, and I made it so that the job would be as easy for them as possible. I had my laptop out and ready to order some breakfast from Panera for them as soon as they arrived, so that it would get there before they left.
I asked, "So will I be seeing you two in Arizona?" (to the guys who were the truck driving team) and when they said yes, I remembered their names and what they ordered. Panera didn't have Coke and the one guy wanted a Coke but we could not make that happen, so I bought him one of the good Cokes in a glass bottle and had it in the fridge on the other end of the move, and I ordered doughnuts, bagels and the same kind of (strawberry banana) smoothie that the other mover wanted last time. In both instances I did my best to help make sure they had space to put their truck and I ran interference with the neighbors about where they needed to park and such.
At one point, one of the drivers called me and asked if it was OK to shift my delivery by one day and that was fine, and he was thrilled because it made the difference in letting him go home and see his family over a weekend. These dudes loved working with me.
I make a general habit in LIFE of trying to deal with other people with as much consideration as I possibly can. And it pays off. You have no idea the benefits I've gotten in so many ways from this behavior. Is it schmoozy? Yeah. But I don't think it's "fake" because I honestly do like people, I like contributing to more happiness and less stress in the world, and when I wish somebody well, I mean it. And when you act that way...doors open for you. In dating, this is SO much more effective than being a general misanthrope until the occasion arises when you need someone's cooperation for a specific agenda. That way lies a LOT of disappointment and rejection.
Yep! Regarding your first point made... I moved from CO to AZ last year. I had pro movers involved. I've learned in the past that it's a good thing if your movers like you, and it's a bit of a dance to optimize this. I prepped the house beforehand, since I was doing the packing I staged all of the boxes in one room near the door to take them out to the truck, I disassembled furniture as best as I could, and I made it so that the job would be as easy for them as possible. I had my laptop out and ready to order some breakfast from Panera for them as soon as they arrived, so that it would get there before they left.
I asked, "So will I be seeing you two in Arizona?" (to the guys who were the truck driving team) and when they said yes, I remembered their names and what they ordered. Panera didn't have Coke and the one guy wanted a Coke but we could not make that happen, so I bought him one of the good Cokes in a glass bottle and had it in the fridge on the other end of the move, and I ordered doughnuts, bagels and the same kind of (strawberry banana) smoothie that the other mover wanted last time. In both instances I did my best to help make sure they had space to put their truck and I ran interference with the neighbors about where they needed to park and such.
At one point, one of the drivers called me and asked if it was OK to shift my delivery by one day and that was fine, and he was thrilled because it made the difference in letting him go home and see his family over a weekend. These dudes loved working with me.
I make a general habit in LIFE of trying to deal with other people with as much consideration as I possibly can. And it pays off. You have no idea the benefits I've gotten in so many ways from this behavior. Is it schmoozy? Yeah. But I don't think it's "fake" because I honestly do like people, I like contributing to more happiness and less stress in the world, and when I wish somebody well, I mean it. And when you act that way...doors open for you. In dating, this is SO much more effective than being a general misanthrope until the occasion arises when you need someone's cooperation for a specific agenda. That way lies a LOT of disappointment and rejection.
That's awesome. (Although I admit that sometimes, I'm not always sure how much of that sort of thing I can do to be nice, vs. at what point it might start to seem odd, over-the-top, or creepy.)
And I honestly think there's a spectrum that goes from "purely manipulative" to "purely altruistic." I think you can do something for someone to be nice, while at the same time realizing that it can benefit you in some way as well. Or, do something for someone because you know it's a nice thing to do, even if you don't feel emotionally invested in the person.
That's awesome. (Although I admit that sometimes, I'm not always sure how much of that sort of thing I can do to be nice, vs. at what point it might start to seem odd, over-the-top, or creepy.)
And I honestly think there's a spectrum that goes from "purely manipulative" to "purely altruistic." I think you can do something for someone to be nice, while at the same time realizing that it can benefit you in some way as well. Or, do something for someone because you know it's a nice thing to do, even if you don't feel emotionally invested in the person.
I don't tend to weigh it too much about whether I'm doing it for purely altruistic reasons or for selfish ones. I see such things as just a win-win. In the example I gave, I know these guys have a taxing job, I sure couldn't do it, and I appreciated them. Heck, if I'd known then what I know now about the trucking industry, I'd have appreciated them even more! But I also know that if I put my money where my mouth is and show them the appreciation I feel, they will probably do whatever they can to make things go well for me.
Win-win.
(I also tip well, as a rule, for similar general reasons. Heck even when service isn't the best, I still tip pretty well, 'cause I assume that person is going through something, having a rough time...if I can make it a little better, I'm gonna.)
I do occasionally reel back those impulses if I feel like it would be weird. I was sitting in my car once waiting for my son to come out of high school and a student walked by and he had cool hair and clothing, he just looked seriously put together. I admired his fashion sense. I wished there were a way for me to convey that to him, that I just thought he looked cool. But as an adult, yelling at some kid across a parking lot would have been super weird, so of course I didn't. And yeah, if I'd been a guy appreciating the appearance of a teenage girl, how awful that would have gone over, even if there was NOTHING sexual or nefarious about it! We can't always share our kind or positive thoughts. Sadly. Mostly because too many people have agendas and too many have to be wary about that. Again, sadly.
I don't tend to weigh it too much about whether I'm doing it for purely altruistic reasons or for selfish ones. I see such things as just a win-win. In the example I gave, I know these guys have a taxing job, I sure couldn't do it, and I appreciated them. Heck, if I'd known then what I know now about the trucking industry, I'd have appreciated them even more! But I also know that if I put my money where my mouth is and show them the appreciation I feel, they will probably do whatever they can to make things go well for me.
Win-win.
(I also tip well, as a rule, for similar general reasons. Heck even when service isn't the best, I still tip pretty well, 'cause I assume that person is going through something, having a rough time...if I can make it a little better, I'm gonna.)
I do occasionally reel back those impulses if I feel like it would be weird. I was sitting in my car once waiting for my son to come out of high school and a student walked by and he had cool hair and clothing, he just looked seriously put together. I admired his fashion sense. I wished there were a way for me to convey that to him, that I just thought he looked cool. But as an adult, yelling at some kid across a parking lot would have been super weird, so of course I didn't. And yeah, if I'd been a guy appreciating the appearance of a teenage girl, how awful that would have gone over, even if there was NOTHING sexual or nefarious about it! We can't always share our kind or positive thoughts. Sadly. Mostly because too many people have agendas and too many have to be wary about that. Again, sadly.
Yes, very true. I've found a few times that doing something nice nets me an odd look, like "why are you doing this?" I don't think it's my delivery-- I think it's that it's unusual and so the person looks at me askance (and I admit I've done the same in similar circumstances where a stranger will do something for me that's just... not the norm). Then again, I've known of other people who'll say they've done the same thing and it's been well-received, so I think it depends on both the situation and the recipient. (And then there are the times when I think, "It would be nice of you, but weird"-- just as you mentioned.)
To add to what Sonic wrote: It's my habit to do much as she does towards others. Most humans are decent people and even as an introvert (who can come across as being an extrovert), I tend to reach out to others and do small kindnesses as I can even if it's just with a stranger at the supermarket who is reaching out for some basic, kind human interaction. (This happens a lot with older people in particular.) There are a lot of lonely folks out there to whom just a small smile and a bit of eye contact from a stranger can go a long way towards making their day a little bit brighter.
Here's the thing (and I think that Sonic is much this way as well): I don't do kindnesses expecting that they'll be reciprocated, acknowledged, or even appreciated. My parents taught me early on through example that one does kindnesses and acts of service towards others just because it's the right thing to do; that what you do when no one is looking is just as, if not more important than what you do when people *are* looking.
Long story short: from dating to non-romantic relationships to everyday interactions, there are a fair number of people who have a tit-for-tat attitude. That doing X should yield Y because hey, they did something that they believed should earn them a shot at a date (and/or sex), at a friendship, or just a "hey, thanks/here's a physical reward. In my experience, people with that attitude tend to eventually become defeatist and bitter because they think that they deserve to be rewarded for their actions.
Can we just be nice to other people? It's really that simple.
If you're bitter and angry on a planet of 5+ Billion people because you're not getting what you want then some introspection is in order. Not judging, almost all of us have something in our lives we'd like to change.
P.S. Just to remind folks, INCEL is an insulting term. If they are calling themselves something it would be MGTOW for the most part (Men going their own way). If you don't like terms like Old Hag, THOT (that "garden implement starting with letter H" over there) or a host of other derogatory terms for men and women then don't contribute to the pile of refuse.
I am late as hell to the topic so it's possible this has already been said.
I think part of the problem is rooted in how sex and romance is constantly hyped up in the media and society in general. A long time ago sex was treated as this taboo topic. People were more sex negative in terms of conversation, but the media was throwing it in people's faces constantly. Now our society is way more sex positive, and sex is literally everywhere these days. It's hyped up to be this life changing experience, and is associated with things like looks, status, money, love, and happiness. But reality is totally different. I think these two conflicting concepts (reality vs. media representation) can cause a lot of confusion and inner turmoil. A least that's what happened to me (I'm a woman). I didn't have violent thoughts nor did I want to hurt anyone. I just became depressed, confused, and dealt with a lot of feelings of inadequacy.
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