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What I wrote was not opinion or metaphoric. You three could not refute it, so you cut down and belittle the messenger as irrelevant, trying to obscure what was shared.
It appears you three consider yourselves to be so wise, and yet cannot grasp a simple child like base level observation. And further prove what I shared in those posts and where it comes from, in your attempt to obscure.
Oh baloney. Your posts are absolutely chock full of non-fact personal beliefs.
I might remind you that this part of the forum is called "Religion And Spirituality", and many people who believe in astrology see it as something spiritual.
I might remind you that this part of the forum is called "Religion And Spirituality", and many people who believe in astrology see it as something spiritual.
Since you are talking Hinduism and I am a Hindu:
The vedas have 2 main parts: one is to do with the world and Existence. The other is about conduct -from farming to archeology to the art of love making, from astrology to music and dance. While all knowledge is divine, yes astrology is also divine. So is cooking, that turns material to food. But it is not a religion, there is no deity, no temples, no priests, no way of worshiping astrology. The astrologer may summon the divine to help him in his predictions but so does the cobbler, praying to the divine that his day should go well.
Since you are talking Hinduism and I am a Hindu:
The vedas have 2 main parts: one is to do with the world and Existence. The other is about conduct -from farming to archeology to the art of love making, from astrology to music and dance. While all knowledge is divine, yes astrology is also divine. So is cooking, that turns material to food. But it is not a religion, there is no deity, no temples, no priests, no way of worshiping astrology. The astrologer may summon the divine to help him in his predictions but so does the cobbler, praying to the divine that his day should go well.
I stand by the article with 73 reference citations more than I listen to you.
To a large degree, what constitutes a "religion" is quite open and variable. One very common aspect though is having faith, belief, and conviction in something that can't or isn't being confirmed in usual tangible ways as other matters. Astrology is a belief in celestial positionings influencing people. Can it be proven conclusively? No. Evolution is religion too, because the actions and abilities of DNA that the core of evolution promotes, is not and cannot take place, but many still believe it anyway. There's a lot of religion in politics too, that their person/party is who they claim to be and is beneficial. People are very religious today - emotionally and in attitude - in many matters that involve no deity / God.
Interesting angle. I just don't see astrology as a religion, but as a method of prediction based on movements of stars and planets. If faith is the basis for religion yea, I suppose so. Predictions fail, then what?
I just don't see astrology as a religion, but as a method of prediction based on movements of stars and planets.
One of the big flaws and fallacies with astrology is that it assigns some significance to the movements of the objects in relation to the constellations. The entire sky is sectioned up into constellations, like the states in the continental US are. But there is nothing special or magical in how the sky was sectioned. In fact, it's changed over time, not due to anything celestial or natural / supernatural, but just man's decisions and eventual agreement. There's nothing special to the boundaries of the constellation of Cancer, for example. It could stretch out farther or be smaller, so the objects could easily be in a different constellation if man had chosen and agreed differently. And what about Ophiuchus? That's a large constellation outside out the 12 'zodiac signs' that can't be ignored.
Even the asterisms (patterns) in the constellations are just random patterns as seen from earth. If you were to look at them from a different angle, the stars would be at varying distances, and in no way related. Astrology assumes that they are not only related, but related by purpose. That's bogus, unscientific, and highly religious (needing a leap of faith).
The science of astronomy can easily debunk and shoot down astrology. Just look at the foundations of what astrology tries to stand on, and then falls through.
Last edited by Thoreau424; 04-18-2024 at 12:48 PM..
Have you tried? It is not Religion that is true, it is what at the core of it that is true. At the core of all religions is the guidance to know your self, and its identity with God. Each religion might say it differently, and the same religion might say it differently to different people.
Spirituality is nothing less than the understanding of our true identity and there is nothing in science that can teach you about it. There is nothing in spirituality that rejects knowledge which includes science.
My main frustration with this "spiritual" approach...
Is that the religions themselves don't do that. All you have to do to realize that is to read their various holy books.
If all religion and God consisted of is what CB is advocating... "knowing yourself and knowing God"... that is a lot more palatable. But that ignores so much of what religions entail.
Meanwhile, many religionists have been and are unwilling to accept science simply because of what their holy books say... and these days it is also because of the political orientation of their particular religious persuasions and religious leaders.
To me it seems like you "spiritual" people should reject religions... but instead you embrace them and just ignore all the dubious aspects of them.
One of the big flaws and fallacies with astrology is that it assigns some significance to the movements of the objects in relation to the constellations. The entire sky is sectioned up into constellations, like the states in the continental US are. But there is nothing special or magical in how the sky was sectioned. In fact, it's changed over time, not due to anything celestial or natural / supernatural, but just man's decisions and eventual agreement. There's nothing special to the boundaries of the constellation of Cancer, for example. It could stretch out farther or be smaller, so the objects could easily be in a different constellation if man had chosen and agreed differently. And what about Ophiuchus? That's a large constellation outside out the 12 'zodiac signs' that can't be ignored.
Even the asterisms (patterns) in the constellations are just random patterns as seen from earth. If you were to look at them from a different angle, the stars would be at varying distances, and in no way related. Astrology assumes that they are not only related, but related by purpose. That's bogus, unscientific, and highly religious (needing a leap of faith).
The science of astronomy can easily debunk and shoot down astrology. Just look at the foundations of what astrology tries to stand on, and then falls through.
Faith in astrology alone does not make it a religion. What matters, i think, is what religion teaches us that we don’t know.
The kingdom of God is within you is not something we know until it is taught and meditated upon so it be becomes our truth. With that truth established, why do we not experience God as within? THis is the path of self-inquiry. Just us any other discipline this inquiry needs one to qualify ourselves with a simplified life, lived with mindfulness, learn, and meditate on what is taught, question and clarify, until one has no doubt that we are spirit, not body and mind, and what hides it from us. At first it requires faith in the teaching, but that is not where it ends. It needs to be understood and that requires engaging it with intellect.
My main frustration with this "spiritual" approach...
Is that the religions themselves don't do that. All you have to do to realize that is to read their various holy books.
If all religion and God consisted of is what CB is advocating... "knowing yourself and knowing God"... that is a lot more palatable. But that ignores so much of what religions entail.
Meanwhile, many religionists have been and are unwilling to accept science simply because of what their holy books say... and these days it is also because of the political orientation of their particular religious persuasions and religious leaders.
To me it seems like you "spiritual" people should reject religions... but instead you embrace them and just ignore all the dubious aspects of them.
"Religious" scientists do the same thing.
The problem is that religions coopted belief in God for control purposes. The religions shifted the focus from developing SELF-CONTROL through "Knowing yourself and God" to OBEYING what God wants from ALL of us . . . OR ELSE . . . to coerce others for societal reasons. It is a human thing, NOT God's thing!!! God is all about our self-control.
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