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there is no problem.
religion and science are compatible and complementary.
if someone has a problem with that, then it is due to their own mindset.
No, not really.
And I say that as a person with two degrees in geology.
When you look back to the early folks who 'appreciated' science...they weren't really very scientific for one very simple reason -- they were trying to use science to verify religious beliefs. Real science occurs when someone investigates a phenomenon without a preconceived idea as to what the result will be. They have to take away the personal feelings and rely totally on scientific findings. And that is not what you do, and it not what those involved in early science did, either.
This is a version of the "non-overlapping magisteria" argument (originally promoted by paleontologist Steven Jay Gould) that essentially says that if you squint correctly, there's no real conflict between religion and science.
In Gould's view, religion operates in the realm of human meaning, purpose and values and has a different toolset for dealing with those. However, allowing these two magisteria to coexist respectfully, is only possible for theists who do not take their beliefs so seriously that they are obsessed with their own rightness (RIGHTeousness) and are willing to take some approach to holy writ other than the route of inerrantists and literalists. This gives room for two things to be "true" at the same time in a sense, such as that god created the world a few thousand years ago in 7 days, vs that the world is almost incomprehensibly old and that life evolves by natural selection from earlier forms. As a theist, you come up with things like the "gap theory" where you insert those billions of years of evolution in between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2, and/or, you just see the accounts of creation and the Fall as legends essentially, as object lessons rather than historical accounts. But not all Christians are willing to do this.
Of course science doesn't claim to explain 100% of everything. Things it can't explain, it often can explain down the road, given more data and understanding. But I don't see that introducing gods into the picture explains that which is currently unexplainable, or could ever explain it in the future.
A subset of things may never be explainable, such as things that would require us to exit the universe and observe it from outside of itself .. and so what? This manufactured need to understand everything at all times is what gets humanity into trouble.
God is not about explaining this physical existence. That is for science. God is why there is this physical existence. Our human speculations and any inspired interpretations of it in religions have no empirical value which is why they are BELIEFS.
I would say scientists allowing their human understanding to tell them something about God is dead on arrival. Certainly I believe looking at the world, one could say life was created by something that is not "natural", as we understand nature. By this I'm saying one could conclude existence didn't pop up from nothing. However, this current existence is not going to properly tell you who that creator is. Why? For one, none of us have been here from the beginning. We are making assumptions about our reality based on what we currently see.
Of course some would say these aren't assumptions, but are well tested hypotheses now become theories. The problem with this is that all of our tested and rigorous scientific work are based on our observations. Our observations are EXTREMELY limited. Through our observation we say the universe is approximately 13.8 billion years old. However we then measure the age of the Methuselah Star with our observation, and we get an approximate age of 14 and a half billion years old. (More than half a billion years older than the universe itself. Go figure) This being one example of thinking we can know God through studying the world and universe with our understanding. Science is ultimately our own understanding at the end of the day.
Ultimately I would argue the way to know God, should He exist, is to let Him reveal Himself. Now you're no longer doing science (our observation), but you would then be doing omni-science (God's observation)! In this field of omni-science, there would be no disagreement between the faith and observation. (Of course I'm speaking from the Christian point of view)
there is no problem.
religion and science are compatible and complementary.
if someone has a problem with that, then it is due to their own mindset.
I agree.
I can also see a few exceptions though. Many of our modern organized religions have decades of man-made doctrines that were not sourced from any holy writ.
God is not about explaining this physical existence. That is for science. God is why there is this physical existence. Our human speculations and any inspired interpretations of it in religions have no empirical value which is why they are BELIEFS.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel
there is no problem. religion and science are compatible and complementary.
if someone has a problem with that, then it is due to their own mindset.
I agree. The real problem lies in our state of mind and expectations. As a victim of the atheist mindset for over 30+ years, I am well aware of the "lack of signs" from Reality. It took an extreme encounter to shake my certainty and erase that mindset.
You can't prove the intangible and you can't convince people who don't believe in the intangible so why bother ?
Because people intent on proselytizing can't keep their noses out of other people's business.
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In this field of omni-science, there would be no disagreement between the faith and observation. (Of course I'm speaking from the Christian point of view)