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I recently moved in the back cabin behind my landlord/landlady house. He is out of town, and made a deal about my neighbors kids coming over to see me. I short, since he is out of town, she had a blow out with me over the neighbor's being here, so it went from the kids not being allowed here, to the neighbors not being allowed here, and at this point none of my friends are allowed here. I know I have a right to have visitors as a renter, but the problem is, is anyone has to go through their driveway and by their house, so they have the right of way. Because of this, I'm guessing that legally, she can keep me from having visitors. I feel bad because I was threatened to get kicked out if I didn't tell them, so now I am contacting my friends and telling them they can't come over. My girlfriend's friends can still visit, but not mine. I'm guessing she can legally do this because of the driveway right of way. Can anyone give me any input on this, and maybe some way I can change it W/O causing too many problems? Thanks
Last edited by ElkHunter; 08-02-2012 at 08:50 AM..
Reason: Removed link to smilys
UMMMMMMM NO the LL is outta bounds at this point .. the driveway is an easement to your house and altho they can see thevisitors they cant stop them and they cant kick you out for having them
What makes you think they can legally stop you from having company ?
If your lease does not specifically address this issue your LL has no legal basis for denying them access. You are getting bullied by your LL. So your choices are either continue to let that happen or stand up for yourself.
To clarify a few things, because your post is a little tough to follow:
So your landlord also lives on the property, and you rent a separate building on the grounds, but share access with the landlord? Or the LL owns another building out front, but lives out of town somewhere?
Your girlfriend lives with you? And the LL said your girlfriends friends can come over, but yours can't?
Ok, here is how I'm reading this: The LL freaked out because the neighbor's kids were coming over to your house. But the LL was out of town at the time. The only reason I think of this happening is if the neighbor (the kid's parents) called your LL to complain, meaning the kids didn't have their parents permission to be hanging out with you. I'm guessing you objected, argued with the landlord, and so the landlord just said "fine, no guests at all, then".
Without more information, that is my best guess. If that is the case, then yes, the LL can tell you to stop inviting minor children into your house without their parent's permission. If you don't stop that, the parents could call the police on you. That is a separate issue from your friends as guests. In most cases, the LL cannot stop you from having your own friends over on your property (unless your lease specifically says something about this to the contrary, so check that), but in this case, you are renting a building on the same grounds as his personal property from the sounds of it. That being so, the rules might be different. I'm just not sure on that one. It actually could be legal for him to dictate specifically which people are allowed to come onto his personal property, since he lives there also. The road isn't the issue, because if it was, you could just have your friends park elsewhere and walk in. The issue is whether access to the property in general is still legal if denied by the owner of the property, who also resides there. You might have to check with an attorney for rentals in your state on that one.
You asked how you can fix this without a fight. Have you tried calmly approaching your LL about it? It sounds to me like you got into a fight with them when confronted about the neighbors, so rather than compromising, they just went to the other extreme. A calm, adult conversation might work wonders.
Unless written in the lease, the landlord cannot tell you who is allowed to visit. I dont agree with Lacerta about about landlord trying to act like a copy/parent to the neighbor's kids.
The only time landlord can limit visitors is if you are breaking the lease....having someone "live" there for longer than 15 days if this is listed on the lease, bringing pets into the rental when pets are not allowed, etc.
If you dont have a written lease, there are still state laws that protect you.
You paying rent means the landlord cannot tell you what visitors are allowed, or what you can eat for dinner or how you can dress and what kind of music you listen to. This landlord sounds like he is trying to act like your parent...and a controlling one at that. Probably the landlord is trying to be in control since landlord lives on same property.
But once landlord chose to rent out the cabin on the same property, then landlord lost the ability to control who came/went on the property like they had before you moved in. Landlord probably wanted to rent out the cabin and only have the tenant come and go. If this is not written into the lease, then the landlord is completely wrong.
The issue here is...if you dont have a lease, or if the lease is coming to and end soon, the landlord could choose to ask you to move out. He might do this because he wants you to be a hermit. Maybe he should just leave the cabin empty. Seems that is what he wants but he also wants to collect rent.
Doesnt matter about the shared driveway. I would continue having visitors. If he brings it up again, let him know calmly that per state law, he cannot control your visitors. That you are abiding my the terms of your lease(or per state landlord tenant laws).
If he continues to harass you, look up Demand Letter to landlord. He is not giving you quiet enjoyment of the rental. This is a right that a tenant has. You are allowed this per state law. He would be breaking the contract and you would send him a demand letter to demand your quiet enjoyment.
Start logging the date/time and method of contact and comments given by landlord each time he tells you that friends are not allowed. Log every time. Keep it someplace where he cannot sneak in and take your only copy. He is breaking the law. If he tries to force anyone away, you can call the police to stop him. Hope it doesn't get this ugly.
As a general rule of thumb, a driveway is public property, since it adjoins to the road. AS for the visitors, as long as your lease states that you are allowed (and sometimes it lists rules for parking, the number of visitors, the hours, ect, so make sure to check it, and every lease is different) then legally your landlord is in the wrong. If your lease does state that visitors are not allowed, then you are wrong. As a lot of the other people are saying, simply talking to the landlord about the problem, like grown ups, can generally resolve the problem. If not, I would start looking for another place to rent.
As a general rule of thumb, a driveway is public property, since it adjoins to the road.
Just for the sake of good order, that wasn't so until just two years ago when the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals, in a ruling which was severely criticized, mandated that law enforcement officials had the right to enter a private ungated driveway to put tracking devices on suspect motor vehicles. Prior to that, a private driveway was exactly that - private - but there were public easements in place, usually 3' in from the roadway. This ruling and its wording essentially overrode that expectation of privacy. I don't know if it's been challenged since then.
As far as the OP's situation is concerned, I agree that he should have a conversation with his LL and get things sorted out. I'm not so sure that a landlord can't restrict visitors to certain hours. For instance, when I was a private landlord I was never faced with the problem of having visitors driving in and disturbing me in the wee hours of the morning but, if I had been and the problem wasn't resolved, I may well have added a future clause to the rental agreement saying "no visitors after midnight without prior approval of landlord" or something similar.
To clarify a few things, because your post is a little tough to follow:
So your landlord also lives on the property, and you rent a separate building on the grounds, but share access with the landlord? Or the LL owns another building out front, but lives out of town somewhere?
Your girlfriend lives with you? And the LL said your girlfriends friends can come over, but yours can't?
Ok, here is how I'm reading this: The LL freaked out because the neighbor's kids were coming over to your house. But the LL was out of town at the time. The only reason I think of this happening is if the neighbor (the kid's parents) called your LL to complain, meaning the kids didn't have their parents permission to be hanging out with you. I'm guessing you objected, argued with the landlord, and so the landlord just said "fine, no guests at all, then".
Without more information, that is my best guess. If that is the case, then yes, the LL can tell you to stop inviting minor children into your house without their parent's permission. If you don't stop that, the parents could call the police on you. That is a separate issue from your friends as guests. In most cases, the LL cannot stop you from having your own friends over on your property (unless your lease specifically says something about this to the contrary, so check that), but in this case, you are renting a building on the same grounds as his personal property from the sounds of it. That being so, the rules might be different. I'm just not sure on that one. It actually could be legal for him to dictate specifically which people are allowed to come onto his personal property, since he lives there also. The road isn't the issue, because if it was, you could just have your friends park elsewhere and walk in. The issue is whether access to the property in general is still legal if denied by the owner of the property, who also resides there. You might have to check with an attorney for rentals in your state on that one.
You asked how you can fix this without a fight. Have you tried calmly approaching your LL about it? It sounds to me like you got into a fight with them when confronted about the neighbors, so rather than compromising, they just went to the other extreme. A calm, adult conversation might work wonders.
Actually, both the husband and wife are my landlord and landlady. He has been out of town and didn't want the neighbors kids coming over. Well, their parents came over without the kids and she made a big deal out of it, because the kids are known to come over here when the parents are here, plus, they don't like that group of people. So it went from the kids not coming over, to me basically not having any visitors because of the blowout we had about it, but especially not the neighbors. This is actually also a log home business and they live in the house in front of me, so I have to go down the same driveway. She mentioned liability, and things potentially getting stolen, even though that never happened. We were actually sitting quietly in the house, and as soon as they left she confronted both my girlfriend and I and made it very clear that they were not to be here anymore. Also, she told me that I had to go tell them right then, which I did. Now, she's fine because I put the kibosh on all of it, and they aren't coming over anymore. The parents and the kids, that is, and no, the parents didn't have any problem with the kids coming over.
Last edited by pikeman; 08-03-2012 at 05:03 PM..
Reason: needed to
Just for the sake of good order, that wasn't so until just two years ago when the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals, in a ruling which was severely criticized, mandated that law enforcement officials had the right to enter a private ungated driveway to put tracking devices on suspect motor vehicles. Prior to that, a private driveway was exactly that - private - but there were public easements in place, usually 3' in from the roadway. This ruling and its wording essentially overrode that expectation of privacy. I don't know if it's been challenged since then.
As far as the OP's situation is concerned, I agree that he should have a conversation with his LL and get things sorted out. I'm not so sure that a landlord can't restrict visitors to certain hours. For instance, when I was a private landlord I was never faced with the problem of having visitors driving in and disturbing me in the wee hours of the morning but, if I had been and the problem wasn't resolved, I may well have added a future clause to the rental agreement saying "no visitors after midnight without prior approval of landlord" or something similar.
People were not coming over in the middle of the night, though. These people rarely stopped by, and this was after I got off work, about 6 or 7 pm. We were just sitting in the house, but she didn't like it because her husband is out of town, and already said the kids weren't allowed here, period, and I had to be the jerk to go tell them. Well, only the parents were here, and the teenage daughter. That didn't seem to matter though, they were all banned with no uncertain terms. I was confronted in the driveway and told that I had to go tell them right then, after they left, and my girlfriend was confronted about it also. Also, I actually have known the landlord and landlady for years, and there is no lease.
a landlord can not tell you who you can and can not have over and when unless said person is court orderd not to be near the ll properties. my ist place on my own ll tried to tell me my 19 yr old g/f i was about 20 or 21 could not be there that she was too young well she was over alot when lease was up gave notice and moved out of the apt was also ttold she could not spend the night as we was unwed lol. and it was a sin. wel we did sin all over the apt lol
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